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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Once we properly understand a signal format, as long as the learned signal has captured enough of the signal for us to determine which protocol it is, it's not important for DecodeIR to be able to capture all three parts. As long as it correctly displays the protocol data and as long as the executor that we write re-creates all three parts, we should be good to go.
As to the question of whether the UEI format will or won't capture all three parts of a signal like this, it's all a matter of how the signal was learned. UEI will always capture the first part OK, but if the user holds the button down indefinitely, it won't capture the 3rd part. It will recognize the repeating structure and stop capturing. It's only when the user releases the button before the UEI process has finished that it will capture the 3rd part.
In this case, the one full capture has told us enough for us to build a good executor, but if we still had questions, we might ask the OP to re-learn the signals and we would give them specific instructions on how to learn in order to get what we're looking for. It's not uncommon for me to ask someone to learn the same button over and over so I can see which bits are toggle bits, for example. If the checksum was different in the 3rd part and I didn't have enough data to determine how to calculate it, I might ask the user to re-learn using shorter button presses. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: |
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vickyg2003 wrote: | We're nowhere near close on this one... I tried just changing the xmit 0 reversed to YES and that didn't improve things. |
Ooops, did I forget that!
Here's the funny thing with this one. If you turn the repeat off in PB, in S3C8-speak the generated code has an R28 byte but no R29 byte (I forget what the PB pseudonyms for those are), so the first bit in R28 is zero. When you turn the repeat on, the R29 byte appears and the first bit of R28 is set.
So, here's what I did. I turned repeat on in order to generate the initial code, then I changed R29 to be 0x00 (rather than 0x01). I don't know if this is contributing to any problems.
To generate the 3-part signal, you want the repeat to be turned off when you send the first part. Then you want it turned on in order to send the 2nd part (the idea being that the 2nd part will keep getting sent for as long as the button is held down). Then once control comes back to the executor after sending the 2nd part, you want the repeat to be turned off again before you send the 3rd part (or the 3rd part won't get sent, as the button has been released at this point).
Another design change that you could try is this. Rather than have an 8-bit device code followed by a 7-bit device code, you would treat the first bit as the leadin (ie, +250 -250) and then have two 7-bit device codes. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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mathdon wrote: | Rob, are there any protocols missing from DecodeIR that you know of and would like me to look at to see if I can deal with them? |
Practically every protocol in the "Protocol Decodes" forum would fit that description, and don't be surprised if I've accidentally decoded a protocol twice because I didn't recognize it as one that I've done before.
Plus, I don't always think to check my UEI files to see if there's an official executor that would work. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4529 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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As you can see, Rob, I'm slowly working backwards through the Protocol Decodes forum, ordered by date of last posting. I was wondering if there were any others that you were interested in seeing in DecodeIR. And yes, I've already found that you've done the IODATA one twice I'm working on this one from 2005 at the moment, with an extremely weird checksum formula that you managed somehow to decode. There's a 72-bit one that I've deliberately skipped for now, but my intention is that I've done everything with any later posting than this 2005 one, as quite a number of threads don't show up a new protocol. Though I must admit there are threads I haven't read to the end if it didn't look as if they involved a new protocol. So please shout if I've missed one.
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Graham |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Whenever you see a thread in this forum (like this one) where there is an IR file but I didn't post anything, please let me know and I'll take a look. There have been times when I was on vacation or busy and I've missed some.
Plus, if there are any where you have questions or want confirmation about something, please post something and I'll respond.
If you find any threads here that really don't deal with a new protocol, please let me know and I'll move them elsewhere (which I do anyway when I spot them). _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Rob,
I finally got around to testing your upgrade, and it sends the three parts just like you said it would.
I thought I had a basic understanding of how repeat and toggles worked, but with this upgrade I was having trouble understanding how this protocol was going to work, since this third part of the signal was going to send the orignal signal. I was wondering how the equipment would not interpret this as a whole new keypress.
I thougt toggles worked in one of three ways;
1) between every other keypress like the RC5
2) between every other frame
3) between first frame and repeats
When I loaded up the learns and shoot them at the scope, I am not seeing this THIRD part. I'm wondering if you happened to decode a button where OP's finger mis-stepped. I haven't checked ALL the keys, but I think the third part is not necessary. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Many of the buttons had the beginnings of a 3rd string, so I expect that it really is there. As to why the OEM decided to format the signal this way, I have no idea, but a release string is often used to make sure that the repeating stops. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | release string is often used to make sure that the repeating stops. |
Thanks, that adds to my overall understanding. I haven't seen that in any of the signals I've examined.
I didn't know there was an Extra section on the learn tabs. So that helps.
The Select key is the only one showing the full third part. If the OK/Select acts like it does on my equipment, I'd never realize if I was getting an extra repeat, because it only works when its in a state to receive the key. I'd like to see the user relearn the Select key, the only one that is showing this third frame, and make sure that its really there. None of the partial frame extras reaches the toggle bit and with all those partial frame extras it looks like the user's hands could be as unsteady as mine.
I'll do the HCS08 both ways anyway, just for the practice. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21258 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'll drop Digital Larry a line o see if he still has access to the Canal in order to test the upgrade. I doubt he still has access to the Canal remote, but if he does we could ask him to relearn some of the signals using shorter button presses, which might help the JP1 remote to capture the break signal.
This 3 part structure is unusual for remotes, it's much more common on infrared keyboards. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4529 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Hey, I've just had my first success in finding a UEI executor for a new protocol! This CanalSat protocol is PID 018C, which seems only to be in HCS08 remotes at the moment.
The UEI executor doesn't give an "extra" frame, it just has the initial frame with a toggle of 0 followed by repeats with a toggle of 1. The evidence for the "extra" frame in the learned signals was somewhat doubtful, anyway. It also has, in effect, a very slightly different IRP from mine. I had
CanalSat {55.5k,250,msb}<-1,1|1,-1>(1:1,D:7,S:6,T:1,F:8,-89m)+
but UEI has
CanalSat {55.5k,250,msb}<-1,1|1,-1>(1:1,D:7,S:6,T:1,0:1,F:7,-89m)+
The difference is that UEI forces the top bit of "my" 8-bit function code to be 0 and treats it as a fixed bit, making 16 fixed bits and 7 variable ones instead of my 15 fixed and 8 variable ones. I've amended my DecodeIR accordingly. Since the 7 bits of the function code go into the left-most bits of the function byte, this has the effect of shifting the Hex code left by one place.
Here is a "front end" for the existing PID 018C entry in protocols.ini that handles the CanalSat fixed bytes:
Code: | [CanalSat]
PID=01 8C
DevParms=Device:7=11,Sub Device:6=0
DeviceTranslator=Translator(0,7,1) Translator(1,6,8) Translator(1,6,16)
CmdParms=OBC:7=0
CmdTranslator=Translator(0,7)
FixedData=8B 00 02
Code.HCS08=20 12 17 31 31 8F 80 10 08 07 00 7C 00 83 00 7C 00 83 AD BB 3A A9 4E 62 56 4E 63 62 CD FF 5F CD FF 92 24 08 10 A3 4E 56 61 CC FF 5F 81
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Perhaps someone can provide an S3C8 translation.
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Graham |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4529 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Curiously I find that Rob has a spreadsheet with S3C8 code for PID 018C even though it doesn't list any S3C8 remotes as supporting it! Anyway, adopting that code, the protocols.ini entry becomes
Code: | [CanalSat]
PID=01 8C
DevParms=Device:7=11,Sub Device:6=0
DeviceTranslator=Translator(0,7,1) Translator(1,6,8) Translator(1,6,16)
CmdParms=OBC:7=0
CmdTranslator=Translator(0,7)
FixedData=8B 00 02
Code.HCS08=20 12 17 31 31 8F 80 10 08 07 00 7C 00 83 00 7C 00 83 AD BB 3A A9 4E 62 56 4E 63 62 CD FF 5F CD FF 92 24 08 10 A3 4E 56 61 CC FF 5F 81
Code.S3C80=2D 5E 31 8B 0F 8F 80 10 08 07 00 7D 00 6F 00 7D 00 6F AD A7 00 10 68 05 E4 06 05 F6 01 46 F6 01 0A FB 08 46 29 01 69 04 8D 01 46 AF |
______________
Graham |
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gfb107 Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 3411 Location: Cary, NC |
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alanrichey Expert
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 3529 Location: UK/USA |
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Did anything come of this ? I just had IRSCOPE decode a protocol as 'CanalSat', but that isn't included in the Protocols for RemoteMaster. |
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