JP1 Remotes

[dolivas27]

Ok I need a little help with this I am trying to build a device upgrade for a Magnavox Plasma TV. I am using an IR Widget I purchased from Tommy to capture all the codes. I have the basic buttons working fine but now I want to add some discrete codes for the inputs HDMI, Side, Video 1 and so on for this I am capturing the codes from a Logitech 670 remote I have that has working buttons for the inputs. Now for the questions I original build the device upgrade in RM using the RC-6 Protocol now after capturing the new keys in IR Scope I see the protocol is RC5 for the new keys only and all the original keys are still RC-6.

1. Do I now have to use the RC5/6 combo protocol
2. When building the upgrade in RM what is the easiest way to enter the codes I have learned do I use the Hex value or the key value (which equals the OBC right?) and how do I get the EFC from IR Scope?
3. When I change to the RC5/6 combo protocol what are the extra Protocol Parameters and what do I set them to? Is there a guide on these setting some where I have looked but cannot find anything (Sorry if I missed it)

Here is picture of the capture in IR Scope using the IR Widget



What I am not sure of is how I enter this in RM using the Hex codes shown by IR Scope.

Here is another picture showing one of the keys that was learned on an RS 15-2117 remote. It shows Hex keys as 18 or 19 or 1A so what do I use? Confused



Thanks for any help you can provide.

[3FG]

First, I'll comment on OBC versus Hex data.
An IR signal generally has device information and command (OBC) information. Programs/hardware that read IR signals can tell you those two items with certainty, assuming a good learn.

A remote generates these IR signals with given device and command numbers by sending key specific data to an executor, which is simply a subroutine that takes the input data and arranges it into the pattern of light flashes. This input data to the executor is frequently called Hex data in JP1 speak. The Hex data can also be expressed as an EFC, which is just a weakly encrypted form of the Hex data.

But the Hex data needed to give rise to a particular IR signal depends on the characteristics of the executor. For a given OBC, the Hex data will be different for the RC6 protocol and and for the RC5/RC6 combo. [It is unfortunate, but in JP1 speak we frequently intermix the terms protocol and executor. Strictly speaking the item list labeled protocol in RM is really (mostly) a list of executors.]

So you need to use OBCs when converting from one executor (protocol) to another. IMO, in most instances you will be ahead to think in terms of OBC, and not Hex data.

Now, you haven't posted your first rmdu file, but I guess that the RC5/RC6 Combo will work for you. It allows you to specify up to 3 RC6 devices, which is done on the setup page. The RC6 executor only allowed you to specify one RC6 device, also on the setup tab. Both allow you to select the various OBCs on the Functions tab. So take the device number from your RC6 rmdu file, and put it into Device 1 of the Combo. Then fill in the Functions tab. Possibly you can start with the original rmdu, and then select the combo protocol. After fixing the device number on the Setup tab, perhaps you'll find the OBCs undisturbed from the original. Might save some time.

[dolivas27]

3FG
Thanks for the help I have rebuilt the upgrade from scratch and now it seems to be sending the correct information I will check that out on the TV tomorrow but using the IR Scope they are now the same.

I guess the biggest thing that was messing me up was I was trying to use the Hex info from IR Scope but I guess that was a bad idea. So I should be using the Key (equals the OBC) and the Device and Protocol in IR Scope.

Ok so the functions on the original remote were RC6 and device 0 so is that why I set the Protocol Parameters on the setup page of RM for device 1 to 0? Now let’s say I needed a function that was an RC6 and had a device of 1 would I then just set the RC6 Dev 2: on the setup page to 1?

If you look at the list below you will see the HDMI and video 1 have the same 5 OBC number but the 5 Dev is different let say I had another function that was the same OBC but had a different device number say a 4 would I still just change the 5 Dev number and it would work?

Also from the list below you will see that video 2 and side have the same EFC number and that was another thing that had me confused? Why are the EFC the same? I see that the EFC5 are different?




I uploaded the rmdu file so if you have a chance look it over and see if there is anything else I might have done wrong the keys are not in their final spots just put them there for quick testing.

Link to the file. http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=7973

Thanks,
dolivas27

[3FG]

I'm surprised if the RC6 signals from the combo are the same as your original RC6. That's because most of the entries are listed as RC6 in the Type column, but have n/a listed in the 6 device column. According to the instructions on the setup tab you need to enter dev/OBCs into the two 6 columns, and ignore the garbage in the 5 columns.

Clicking on the individual entries in the 6 device column won't get a response when the 5 column has been filled in. I think you can highlight the 6 OBC entries, Ctrl-C to copy, then highlight the entry in the 5 OBC column and delete it. That will basically blank out the whole line except for function name. Now you can click on the 6 device entry, select 0, and then paste the OBC into the 6 OBC column.

About device numbers and OBC numbers, the answer to both question is Yes.

EFC numbers are encrypted Hex data. The RC6/RC5 combo can describe RC5 with all 127 possible device numbers, and all 127 possible OBC numbers. That's 16,384 combinations of RC5 data. It can provide an additional 3 RC6 devices, each with 256 OBCs. So it takes two bytes of Hex data to describe all those combinations. 2 bits of the Hex data are control bits, which tell the executor whether to send RC5, or RC6(1), RC6(2) or RC6(3). The other 14 bits contain the RC5 device numbers, and RC5/RC6 OBC numbers.

The point is that 16 bits of information can't be represented by a 3 digit EFC. It can be represented by a 5 digit EFC, since 65536 (2^16) is writable in 5 decimal digits. So the 3 digit EFCs aren't really meaningful, but RM doesn't have the capability to suppress that information.

[dolivas27]

Ok here is what I found out about the 6 Dev I don't know if it is a bug in RM or if that is the way it works. If on the setup page I enter 0 for the RC6 Dev 1 the I have a n/a on the functions tab. If I enter 0 on the RC6 Dev 3 I now have a 0 in the Dev 6 on the functions tab. It looks like Dev 1-3 are backwards? what ever it is unless you put something in the Dev 3 spot you will always have a n/a

[3FG]

You only want to use Device 0, right? So put for example 45 in Dev2, and 83 in Dev3. You'll still need to explicitly click on the 6 device, and select 0 from the drop down.

Or, you can follow the recipe I gave above for getting it to take 0 as the 6 device.

[dolivas27]

Ok so you have to have something in all the cells? if I put 0 in dev 3 then I get a 0 in the 6 Dev field in the functions tab? why would it be backwards?

So following you recipe if I did it like this I would not have to go through all the fields and change them it would put a 0 in the field

Dev 1 = 45
Dev 2 = 83
Dev 3 = 0

[Capn Trips]

You seem to be making the use of RM more complicated than you need to. For the image you posted, it does not matter what entries are in the RC6 coumns, since the signal type you have selected is RC5. If you are entering an RC6 function, then you select the RC6 Device number from the drop-down list in that column and it does not matter what is in the RC5 columns. Which device number happens to pop up automatically is immaterial - you just select the one you need and off you go!
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer)

[dolivas27]

Capn Trips

So what you are saying is I do not need to put anything is the Protocol Parameters on the Setup tab? If I do that I get an n/a in the 6 Dev column which is fine in this case because I only have a device 0 for all the 6 Dev functions. Now suppose I have a device 0 and 10 for the Dev 6 devices is that when I would put something in the Dev 1,2,3 rows on the setup tab?

Ok I just reread what you wrote

[3FG]

Dean,
I understand that the behavior of RM is a little odd. But all you need to do is put some device number in each of Dev1, Dev 2 and Dev 3 on the Setup tab. If you want, you could use zero for all three.

I strongly recommend that you avoid using a rmdu file that has n/a listed in the 6 Dev column, because it a) you should eventually submit your upgrade into the File Section, and b) whoever (this includes you after a few months have elapsed) who looks at the upgrade will be confused by n/a listed for a critical parameter.

The fact that it seems to work with n/a presumably depends on some default action in RM, and that could easily change in a later version. My advice is to go ahead and get the rmdu file into proper form now.

[dolivas27]

3FG,
I agree with you one 100% I did what you suggested I set all the Dev values to 0 and made all the final changes it is working perfect now. I will upload it later in case someone else could use it.

I have another quick question why are the values different in KM and RM what I have noticed is the 5-digit EFC's are not the same from one program to the other? is there a way to convert the OBC to a 5-digit EFC?

Thanks again for the help I forgot how fun all this stuff was it has been a few years since the last time I build the JP1 interface. I should be providing a ton of upgrades for people in the future,

Dean