JP1 Remotes

es114 · Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: IL

Lot's of great suggestions. I will try and report back later.

Thanks,

Eric

es114 · Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: IL

OK. File is uploaded to diagnostics at JP1. Look under 2d.txt by es114.

Thanks,

Eric

es114 · Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: IL

When I change the setup from the file I uploaded to diagnostics to 0269 from 0039 both vol controls work and the 1994 seems to accept learned codes again. Should I delete any of the learned codes or will that cause more problems.

Thanks

Eric

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:35 am Post subject:

While you are testing any built in setup code or upgrade, you should get rid of all learned signals in the same device mode that you are testing. Example: to really test Audio/0269 in AUX1 mode you must get rid of the learned signals that are in AUX1 mode.

At minimum, learned signals in the same mode override the setup code and confuse your test results. But as you saw with that device combiner upgrade, keeping the learned signals can be even worse than just overriding and confusing the test.

For other devices (if you don't plan to use the extender) you might want to reload some learned signals from a saved file after you finish testing some upgrade or built in setup code, but for these RC5 signals you should convert them all to either KeyMoves or definitions within an upgrade. Learned RC5 signals will never work very well (toggle bit problems).

A couple of your other learned signal are pretty bad learns, so they take more learned signal memory than they should and they won't work as well as clean signals. You should convert those to KeyMoves or part of an upgrade as well. TV:4s is quite bad. SAT:Move fairly bad.

You probably need to learn a few more of the Marantz signals temporarily in order to know how to make the right upgrade. Delete some learned signals first, so you'll have enough learned signal memory to learn several more. Learn those, download to IR.EXE and decode. Repeat if necessary.

A simple RC5 upgrade can include up to three different device numbers. I expect your commands will be mainly in device 16, but you seem to need command number 63 in several other device numbers, plus there are likely to be a few commands in the device numbers that usually go together with 16. You may also want to try some typical Marantz RC5x discrete codes.

It is possible (a couple different ways) to make a larger more complicated RC5 upgrade with more than three device numbers and/or with some RC5x commands. Before deciding whether to do that you should figure out how many of the commands you want can be covered by three RC5 device numbers. If a large majority of the commands are covered that way, it's probably best to make a simple upgrade and fill in the rest with keymoves. If a significant fraction aren't covered by three RC5 device numbers, list what you need covered and someone will explain which combo protocol is best.

es114 · Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: IL

I deleted the learned keys as you suggested and 0269 controls vol +/-, surr, power (off only) mute, and key 1 turns on phono. 1994 will not learn fm to key 2 or cd to key 3 but will learn ld to key 4. FM doesn't seem to be rc5 as the rest, for example. should I upload that example?

Eric

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:26 am Post subject:

es114 · Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: IL

I have uploaded a file to show you what I have done. In diagnostics under 2itest by 12_25. Plenty of learned signals space. The 1994 still won't learn FM, CD as before.

Suggestions?

And thanks again.

jamesgammel · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:38 am Post subject:

I looked at your latest file. You're not following John's advice. If you look at the raw data, there's only about 5-6 byes of upgrade space left, not the 618 that Ir shows. He said to SAVE your current config. (less ANY learned signals), then 981, then learn. You didn't do that. You have a TOn of keymoves and macros, 2 upgrades, and a protocol upgrade. ALL those are screwing up your remote's ability to learn properly.
He didn't make those suggestions and advice to screw you around, or make things difficult for you. The 1994 has a bug (which we can't do anything about) concerning having protocol upgrades and learning on the device keys with protocol upgrades. I didn't dig that deep, but with a quick look, you may be using the same protocol upgrade on 2 device keys.
If you want to clear up this mess and make progress, delete the learns, SAVE your config. then 981 the remote and relearn. You can reload the config AFTER you get decent learns for the device you're trying to tackle. As is you're creating the problems you've been experiencing.
Part of the problem may be that weird byte at 3FO (end of macros section) that should be an "FF".
We can only give suggestions and advise you on how to tackle your problem, if YOU don't heed that advice, don't piss and moan because things aren't working right. the 1994 bug concerning learns on devices with protrocol upgrades is WELL documented and not something new or just something unique to you.

Jim

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:41 am Post subject:

Maybe something is wrong with the way you aim the remotes at each other when learning. On the front of a new 15-1994 you can see the tiny white arrow pointing to the off center point where the learning LED is. If that has rubbed off, it is roughly under the key that has the icon of a light bulb.

On almost all original remotes, if you can't see the emitter LED, it is in the center of the window.

Or maybe your technique is wrong. Right after the fast blinking starts on the 15-1994 press and hold the original remote button, until the fast blinking stops.

The signal you learned to the AUX1:2 key is an RC5 signal, but it is so badly learned you can't tell what RC5 signal it should be.

I assume that is the LD signal on key 4, that is device 12, OBC 63. I expect FM and CD will also be OBC 63. It shouldn't be too hard to guess and test the device number if you keep having trouble learning them.

Mark Pierson · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:52 am Post subject:

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:53 am Post subject:

es114 · Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 51 Location: IL

Easy now guys, it's the holidays. I just did a 981 reset put 0269 in Aux 1 and the 1994 took the learning codes for all I tried. Jon WAS right! OK now I will upload the setup to a clean IR.exe. I can then upload my SAT and CD upgrades. Do I leave the AUX 1 learned codes as learned or do I establish its own upgrade. I guess I should but need some tips on that.

Thanks again.

Eric

jamesgammel · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:06 pm Post subject:

I found out long time ago that it doesn't pay to take chances when trying to learn signals to decode for a possible device upgrade. OK, I have 5 learning remotes instead of just one, but that doesn't matter much. I ALWAYS use fresh batteries in both remotes, and I ALWAYS purge-reset the learner. If I need successive learns because there's more keys to learn than the remote will hold, I'll purge-reset again before doing the 2nd or third batch. It takes mere seconds to do these, and leave's chance happenings to almost zero. I especially go thru this if the learner is either my 1994 or C-6 (most usually). In the long run it yields more productive results. Some might say this is taking it to the extreme, but if the desired goal is to get the keys learned and make an upgrade, it raises confidence level to it's max, and doesn't require me to remember every little nuance that might screw up a learned signal (other than screwing up on the actual learn, like too far, too close, not offset left-right enough or too far, one remote moving during the learn, did I remember to hold the learning key till it blinked, etc. Once I have all the data I need, it's easy enough to upload my last known working configuration to use the remote on actual devices. Maybe i just like to tackle one thing at a time rather than taking short-cuts that may in the long run create problems with trying to get the appointed task done successfully. If this doesn't work successfully, then I know it's time to go to the experts. Besides, it certainly won't hurt anything. I guess maybe I'm just spoiled from using and taking advantages of tools like "baseline", purge-reset, and the like. BUT, they sure have made my life a lot easier with the mass of unconventional devices I seem to accumulate.

Jim

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:28 pm Post subject:

jamesgammel · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:48 pm Post subject:

Well, I go the step a little further with doing a purge-reset. I leave nothing to chance by forgetting some carazy little restriction or learning nuance as possible. I don't even alter the setup codes from the defaults, in other words, always learn to a "virgin configuration. For the costs of the extra steps I can focus on just getting clean learns, getting the info I need for the upgrade, and move on. Purge-reset I don't have to worry about remembering every little 1994 or C-7 learning restriction. I don't have to worry so much about which keys may have had a keymove or macro on it, it gives me the max available eeprom space for worry-free learns. If something comes up screwed up after several re-tries, I can almost safely assume that there may be a decoding bug or restriction which may need investigating, and it NOT something that i inadvertantly left behind in the eeprom (besides, If it's still left after a purge-reset it simply isn't fixable) (remote-wise).
Jim