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Noob prob with a macro
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject: Noob prob with a macro Reply with quote

I have a OFA 6012B I am having a macro issue with. I have 3 macros set.
    Button- MOVE Macro- TV-POWER-SAT-GUIDE

    Button- PIP Macro- RCVR-POWER-1-HT

    Button- SWAP Macro- DVD-POWER-RCVR-POWER-4-DVD


The first 2 work fine over and over again. The last one on the SWAP button will function once as prescribed, then it will not perform it again. In fact, after performing this macro once it locks out all 3 macros from working again until I push some other mode button other than DVD.

When "locked out" and I push to activate any one of these macros the red LED on the remote blinks only the one time as I press the button. I does not blink as if going thru the macro sequence.

Once I push any other mode button the macros will work again.

Anyone experienced this before? Crying or Very sad
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I can think of that fits those symptoms is that all three of those keys have definitions in DVD mode that override the macros.

Then the macros would also fail if you simply pressed DVD, rather than SWAP.

I assume you have a JP1 enabled 6012, so you can just read the eeprom image and look on the KeyMoves tab and Learned signals tab and see what is there for those three keys. (6102 has no learning, but depending on eeprom size it may be able to store and send learned signals and have those override macros).
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
The only thing I can think of that fits those symptoms is that all three of those keys have definitions in DVD mode that override the macros.

Then the macros would also fail if you simply pressed DVD, rather than SWAP.

I assume you have a JP1 enabled 6012, so you can just read the eeprom image and look on the KeyMoves tab and Learned signals tab and see what is there for those three keys. (6102 has no learning, but depending on eeprom size it may be able to store and send learned signals and have those override macros).


There are functions assigned to these keys in DVD mode. I thought they were keymoves assigned to them via Keymaster. I will have to check when I get back from work. None of these functions are of interest to me, so I might delete them and see if it fixes the problem.

And, YES. This 6012B has been upgraded. I am doing all this with IR.

BTW- A while back I had a similar thing happen when experimenting with discrete functions. I could get them to work once and have to play with the mode buttons and it would work again. I finally gave up thinking it was a discrete thing. I am sure this is something noob I am doing.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjmaye wrote:

There are functions assigned to these keys in DVD mode.


That would definitely cause the problem you described.

sjmaye wrote:
I thought they were keymoves assigned to them via Keymaster.


That sounds plausible. But once they're there, the remote doesn't care whether you defined them yourself or they came from KM. Either way, they will override a macro when in DVD mode.

sjmaye wrote:
None of these functions are of interest to me, so I might delete them


If you want to fix the problem, you have to delete them.
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duh, I knew that a macro overwrote anything else the button has on it, but never thought it could cause a glitch in function.

I will give it a try.
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted the KM keymoves assigned to those buttons. Everything ssems to work well now.

To make sure I undertstand... I must make sure any button that has a macro has no assigned functions on it in any mode?
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can have a function assigned in a device upgrade, but it can't have a keymove or learned signal assigned to it.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjmaye wrote:
Duh, I knew that a macro overwrote anything else the button has on it,


Not correct.

A Macro overrides the definition inside a setup code (built-in setup code or upgrade setup code). But a KeyMove or a learned signal overrides a macro.

KM and RM may bundle some keymoves together with an upgrade. But those keymoves are not "inside" the setup code and are not overridden by the macro. If we could make all the definitions in an upgrade be inside the setup code, we would. But we're limited by the design of the remote. We try to make things simpler by bundling in KeyMoves (vs. making the user define them himself in IR.EXE) but sometimes that makes things more confusing.

Note also, I'm saying "override" not "overwrite". The other definition is still there, just hidden under certain conditions.

sjmaye wrote:
To make sure I undertstand... I must make sure any button that has a macro has no assigned functions on it in any mode?


That depends on what behavior you want. Sometimes we WANT a macro to be available in all but one mode, but have the key do something else in that mode. Then we intentionaly define a KeyMove on the same button as a macro to take advantage of the mode specific override.
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooooh! Now that's way different from what i was thinking.

So, there is a sort of hierarchy?

*Keymove or learned signal
*Macro
*Setup code

So whichever is highest is what is performed? I think I got that. Thanks. I totally misunderstood how that worked.

You mentioned bundling keymoves. By that are you meaning how KM creates keymoves for certain functions to be performed?

I never quite understood why it did that. I DO find it confusing. Never really understood why the function wasn't just assigned to the button like anything else in KM.


Last edited by sjmaye on Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjmaye wrote:


You mentioned bundling keymoves. By that are you meaning how KM creates keymoves for certain functions to be performed?

I never quite understood why it did that. I DO find it confusing. Never really understood why the function wasn't just assigned to the button like anything else in KM.
Precisely this is being discussed in THIS THREAD as we "speak".

Only certain buttons are available for "assignment" within each device type in a JP1 remote. Some modes (like CBL) make more buttons available than others (like TV). From that thread:
Quote:
For the device type selected, those buttons with an @ are NOT included in the device's button map, hence they can only be assigned as keymoves.

Take a look at the Layout worksheet in KM and it indicates what buttons are "assignable" for each device type - anything outside that set must be a KeyMove.
For RM, this is a little more subtle, in that the buttons included in a device's keymap are circled in amber on the layout page, whilst other buttons (i.e. those that will generate keymoves) are not highlighted in this way.
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Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-704.
Streaming: Intel NUC PC
(But I still have to get up for my beer)


Last edited by Capn Trips on Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I thought I was the only person out there with a sleeping disorder! Then I looked up to find you in the UK!

Thanks for the reply. I read the post. Makes things a bit more clear. A couple of questions

Device type- If I understand this correctly the device type I select can affect which keys are available for assignment. That explains the keymoves assigned in KM. I used to think all the buttons were available for me to assign a function to the regardless of device type or anything else for that matter.

NOW, let's say a KM upgrade is set for a device type as VCR when imported in to IR. Then when I assign that upgrade to a mode key what happens if I assign a different device type such as SAT. Will it not recognize it?

VPT- I have had this problem with VPT not working for a device.
Quote:
Robman said, "if you use the wrong device type you'll need 3 keymoves to fix the VPT, but if you use the right device type you may need more keymoves to program all the buttons that you need. "


I assume he means if the wrong device type is selected in KM this can happen. It seems to be all about how many keymoves will have to be written. If I want to keep the VPT working correctly by selecting the "correct" device type, many keys of this device type may not be mapped and will require many keymoves?

I was confused by this. I did not like using keymoves to overcome the VPT not working. It seemed an ugly workaround and not clean, but I see now how it is a balance.

BTW- The "Buttonmap" for a particular device. What defines the buttonmap. Is it hardcoded in the remote or is it something we could change in order to make all the buttons available in any mode?
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjmaye wrote:
Well I thought I was the only person out there with a sleeping disorder! Then I looked up to find you in the UK!
A transplanted American, but livin'in London for now!
sjmaye wrote:

Device type- If I understand this correctly the device type I select can affect which keys are available for assignment. That explains the keymoves assigned in KM. I used to think all the buttons were available for me to assign a function to the regardless of device type or anything else for that matter.

NOW, let's say a KM upgrade is set for a device type as VCR when imported in to IR. Then when I assign that upgrade to a mode key what happens if I assign a different device type such as SAT. Will it not recognize it?
An upgrade is NOT simply the number (i.e. 0056 or 1175). An upgrade consists of a device type AND a setup code (TV/0056 or CBL/1175). So if you have an upgrade built in KM or RM as CBL/1175, and upload it to IR, and then on the General page assign TV/1175 to a device button, YOUR (CBL/1175) upgrade will not be used. The remote will look for an upgrade called TV/1175 - or use a built-in TV/1175, if one exists in its library.
sjmaye wrote:


VPT- I have had this problem with VPT not working for a device.
Quote:
Robman said, "if you use the wrong device type you'll need 3 keymoves to fix the VPT, but if you use the right device type you may need more keymoves to program all the buttons that you need. "


I assume he means if the wrong device type is selected in KM this can happen. It seems to be all about how many keymoves will have to be written. If I want to keep the VPT working correctly by selecting the "correct" device type, many keys of this device type may not be mapped and will require many keymoves?
Right - perhaps I can rephrase this.

Each remote has a "default" or "natural" device type associated with each device button. The TV button normally expects a TV device type and so on. You can assign ANY kind of upgrade, that uses ANY device type to any device button, but if the upgrade's device type differs from the "natural" device type for that device button, then VPT "breaks" for that device.
sjmaye wrote:


I was confused by this. I did not like using keymoves to overcome the VPT not working. It seemed an ugly workaround and not clean, but I see now how it is a balance.
Indeed
sjmaye wrote:


BTW- The "Buttonmap" for a particular device. What defines the buttonmap. Is it hardcoded in the remote or is it something we could change in order to make all the buttons available in any mode?
Hard-coded into the remote. No amount of hacking has led to anybody changing this.

If you're comfortable with JP1-ing at this point, you might want to consider using an extender, which completely changes how you assign devices. It won't change the "natural" affiliations, nor reduce you requirement for Keymoves, but VPT becomes sort of irrelevant with the assignment of "button groups" and you have TONS more keymove space anyways.

Just a suggestion.
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Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-704.
Streaming: Intel NUC PC
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjmaye wrote:
NOW, let's say a KM upgrade is set for a device type as VCR when imported in to IR. Then when I assign that upgrade to a mode key what happens if I assign a different device type such as SAT. Will it not recognize it?

If you change the device type of the upgrade itself in the edit panel in IR, it will still recognize it but the buttons will be all jumbled up. You should only change the device type used for an upgrade in KM or RM.

Capn Trips wrote:
A transplanted American, but livin'in London for now!
Whereas I'm a transplanted Londoner living in America! 8)
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sjmaye



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help you guys! It explains alot of the problems I have been having. That took care of the macros I mentioned.

Now something else has cropped up.

I have a keymove for quick skip on F.FWD and an instant replay keymove on F.REW they are set to do this in SAT mode. And they work fine for me in SAT mode.

I set home theater mode so that the transport keys are from SAT. Now something weird.

If I am in SAT mode and then press HT mode key- All transport keys INCLUDING the F.FWD and F.RWD keys work fine.

If I am in any other mode prior to pressing the HT mode key- All the transport keys EXCEPT these 2 keymoved F.FWD and F.RWD keys.

Any clues?




The Robman wrote:
Capn Trips wrote:
A transplanted American, but livin'in London for now!
Whereas I'm a transplanted Londoner living in America! 8)


Whereas, I am a transplanted Northerner in South. How did you guys end up in your respective locations?[/b]
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjmaye wrote:
I set home theater mode so that the transport keys are from SAT. Now something weird.


Those two keys aren't transport keys. I thought that was an amazingly stupid design decision by UEI, so when I wrote the first extender for the 6012, one of the things it changed was to make those two keys transport keys.

sjmaye wrote:

If I am in SAT mode and then press HT mode key- All transport keys INCLUDING the F.FWD and F.RWD keys work fine.

If I am in any other mode prior to pressing the HT mode key- All the transport keys EXCEPT these 2 keymoved F.FWD and F.RWD keys.


Some keys aren't in any HT group. When you enter HT mode those keys are controlled by whatever mode you were in before entering HT.

I remembered that those two weren't in the transport group. I didn't remember what group they were in, but your report of sympton tells me they are in no group.

sjmaye wrote:

Any clues?


What size eeprom do you have?
If it is 2K, there is no good reason not to use the extender. Take complete control over the HT behavior rather than learn to understand and live with the strange way it works by default.
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