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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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The description of the latter file reads...
Quote: | urc-8910 learned Q key
DVD
1) Learn a short tap of the button.
2) Learn a long hold of the button.
3) Start pressing the keyboard button before you put the JP1 remote into learn mode and then start learning it (ie, to learn the repeating portion of the signal).
4) same as 3 above (different result) |
However, when I look at the signals thru IR, the signals learned in DVD mode are not for this keyboard. The ones learned in SAT mode are though, so I hope these are the ones that you did for me.
Looking at the data, I think we might be onto something, because the data appears to change while the button is being held. Here is the binary for the 3 usable buttons in SAT mode...
11110110 1010
10011010 0111
10011011 0110
10011010 0111
11110111 1011
11110110 1010
10011010 0111
11110111 1011
10011011 0110
11111010 0010
10100000 1010
11111011 0011
10100001 1011 _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for any confusion, but the Q key WAS learned under dvd 123 and 4.
Hmm.. I'll go back and retry.
You are right about SAT though they are also learned from the ack-571 keyboard.
off the top of my head they are:
L1 = ALT TAB TAB
L2 = ALT TAB
L3 = ALT
L4 = ALT F4
These where all quick tap learnings that took some time to get right. _________________ I love it when things work like they are supposed to!
Last edited by Teks on Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Teks, that definitely confirms it, the delay is built into the original signal. The lead-out time between the 1st and 2nd occurrances of the data is 130k whereas the leadout time between the rest of occurrances is 8680. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have just tweeked the timings used in the V2 protocol. I have learned the signals from one remote to another and they almost exactly match those that Teks just posted, so if this doesn't work, I don't know what will.
Here's the updated protocol code...
Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 F1 (S3C8+) Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard (PB v3.11)
43 8C 11 8B 16 89 C4 10 05 08 00 F4 01 24 00 EA
01 24 FF E1 03 8E 01 13 FF FF 04 20 11 08 04 F6
FF 48 08 C1 F0 C0 02 01 F6 FF 48 19 05 F6 01 46
F6 01 0A FB 0A 46 29 01 C6 1C 10 00 F6 01 46 B6
04 01 B6 05 10 8D 01 46 2C 08 10 C0 C0 C1 2A FA
AF
End
Here's the PB file...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2401
And here's a new KM file...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2427
FINGERS CROSSED! _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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It is working... however "The Quick Repeat Problem" is back. Maybe a tad better hard to say. _________________ I love it when things work like they are supposed to! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Could you learn 3 or 4 different buttons from the keyboard using the long-hold method, then try the learned signals from the remote to see if they work. You'll be missing the BREAK part of the signal, so once the button starts repeating you may need to press another button to stop it.
The main thing I'm looking for is some good learns where the button starts repeating when it's held after about the same amount of time as it would if you were holding the keyboard button.
The last protocol I posted acurately replicates the timings of the learns that you posted, so if the learns works, the protocol should too.
If we can't get this thing nailed down, I'll just turn off the repeating part of the protocol all together. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: |
I have added a delay between the first send of the data portion of the signal and the subsequent sends. The delay time is adjustable by editing the red data in the protocol where "FF FF" would be the maximum delay and "00 01" would be the minimum.
Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 F1 (S3C8+) Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard (PB v3.11)
43 8C 11 8B 16 89 C4 10 05 08 00 F4 01 24 00 EA
01 24 4C 2C 03 8E 01 13 FF FF 04 20 11 08 04 F6
FF 4B 08 C1 F0 C0 02 01 F6 FF 4B 19 05 F6 01 46
F6 01 0A FB 0D C6 F8 EE EE F6 01 58 46 29 01 F6
01 46 B6 04 01 B6 05 10 8D 01 46 2C 08 10 C0 C0
C1 2A FA AF
End
If the maximum delay is still not enough, this next version calls the delay routine twice...
Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 F1 (S3C8+) Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard (PB v3.11)
43 8C 11 8B 16 89 C4 10 05 08 00 F4 01 24 00 EA
01 24 4C 2C 03 8E 01 13 FF FF 04 20 11 08 04 F6
FF 52 08 C1 F0 C0 02 01 F6 FF 52 19 05 F6 01 46
F6 01 0A FB 14 C6 F8 EE EE F6 01 58 C6 F8 EE EE
F6 01 58 46 29 01 F6 01 46 B6 04 01 B6 05 10 8D
01 46 2C 08 10 C0 C0 C1 2A FA AF
End
Please keep in mind that I haven't tested this new code at all.
Here's the new PB file...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2419 |
I decided to paste these protocols in and give em another try.. they are now working!??? Unfortunetly with the same "Quick Repeat Problem", the delay routine twice protocol was maxed FF FF. That definitely slowed the repeat rate (slower scrolling)and knocked back triple repeats but I would still get double characters very often.
I'll do some more learns as requested. _________________ I love it when things work like they are supposed to!
Last edited by Teks on Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: |
The main thing I'm looking for is some good learns where the button starts repeating when it's held after about the same amount of time as it would if you were holding the keyboard button.
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None of the learns behave this way they are fast out of the gate. The keyboard defintley has a distictive pause before the repeating starts.
At least I know what to look for... _________________ I love it when things work like they are supposed to! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I had a DUH moment overnight, the 130k delay time that I see in your learned signals is simply the maximum delay that the remote's learning software can handle (as it translates to about FF FF), so the real delay time is obviously much larger.
I'll write a loop around the delay time later, so you can program as much delay as you need. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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I have put the pause time into a loop in this version, so you can increase or decrease the delay by adjusting the red byte. I've also put the HOLD check into the loop, so if you let go of the button while it's in the middle of the delay, it should go straight to the BREAK signal.
Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 F1 (S3C8+) Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard (PB v3.11)
43 8C 11 8B 16 89 C4 10 05 08 00 F4 01 24 00 EA
01 24 10 00 03 8E 01 13 FF FF 04 20 11 08 04 F6
FF 4F 08 C1 F0 C0 02 01 F6 FF 4F 19 05 F6 01 46
6C 06 F6 01 0A FB 0F C6 F8 88 88 F6 01 58 6A F2
46 29 01 F6 01 46 B6 04 01 B6 05 10 8D 01 46 2C
08 10 C0 C0 C1 2A FA AF
End _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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xaust
Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I am still not convinced that there is ANY delay from the initial key press coming from the keyboard. Hear me out . . .
The reason I say this goes back to the experiment results I posted earlier. Here it is again for the experiment of interest:
a. Use the actual keyboard only for this experiment.
b. Cover the IR emitters on the keyboard with your hand and
keep covered until step (e) below.
c. Point the keyboard at the Solidtek IR receiver.
d. Press and hold the Q key on the keyboard.
e. After several seconds, while keeping the Q key depressed, uncover the
IR emitters on the keyboard.
Here is what I see on the computer when I do this experiment:
"Q half-second-delay QQQQQQQ ..."
AHA! We all know that at step (e) above the keyboard is blasting out "Q"s at a fast clip. Obviously it is the "Solidtek IR Receiver" that is really doing the interesting "repeat key" processing. It is the receiver NOT THE KEYBOARD that is detecting that the key is still pressed and inserting the initial 1/2 second delay. Teks - you should be able to easily verify my results with your keyboard and receiver.
Does this mean that the keyboard does not have an initial delay? Not necessarily, but it would seem that since the receiver is inserting the delay then the keyboard also doing so would be entirely redundant. In fact it seems to me that the keyboard having an initail delay itself would probably confuse the "repeat key" algorithm that is built into the receiver.
I am going to order the parts to build the simple IR receiver to be used with DigiTrace and those tools. It is my understanding that this should allow us to analyze what the keyboard is doing in excrutiating detail, correct? |
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Teks
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA |
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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You the ROBMAN!!
Functioning just perfectly... preliminary testing looking good so far.
Nice work! _________________ I love it when things work like they are supposed to! |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21248 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's possible that you two have different versions of this keyboard and/or it's receiver. The fact that our homemade protocol was causing the buttons to repeat too quickly tells us that the receiver does not do the repeat logic. The learned signals that Teks posted include a much longer delay between the 1st and 2nd repeat, which confirms that the keyboard is supposed to do at least some of the work in the delay department.
Teks, did you change the red number at all in your experiments? With it set to 06, do the buttons repeat as quickly as they would using the keyboard? Could you try reducing/increasing the number until the repeat seems to kick in at exactly the same speed as it does with the keyboard.
Xaust, could you see if the buttons stop repeating on cue when you stop pressing the button, using this upgrade. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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