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very beginner questions regarding 15-2133 remote
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: very beginner questions regarding 15-2133 remote Reply with quote

ok all, to start off with, I have read the help/tutorial's on doing the jp1 stuff but I have a few general and specific questions.

So, the reason I'm trying to do this is that I recently received a 15-2133 and I'm having problems getting it to work with my onkyo tx-sr501 receiver. I called customer support and they downloaded code 1320 for my onkyo and code 1877 for my pace hd digital cable box. Unfortunately I was at work so I could't verify that everything worked quite right.

Anyway, to the gist of it. The remote *works* for controlling my receiver but it doesn't work quite the way I'd like (direct access to the input modes doesn't really work - number pad is supposed to do it but half of them go to the same input). Anyway...I'm wondering if the route for me to take is to load up the "Onkyo TX-SR501 using NEC1 Combo (Official)" file I found in the files section and convert it to a wav and have that recorded to my remote.

Here are my questions: Would doing this wipe out the data for my cable box that customer service downloaded to the remote at the same time they downloaded the onkyo code? Also, is there anyone that would care to take the time to walk me through this step by step - I have to admit to being a bit baffled by the various help documents (sorry if this has been asked a million times already)? And lastly, I'd rather just learn the functions to the 15-2133 that I want from the onkyo remote, but it doesn't seem to want to do that (won't learn anything that is).

Anyway.
Thanks very much for any help or insight!
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok,
well, still looking for answers to my above questions, but I have another: I downloaded the text file for the onkyo tx-sr501 (actual file name mentioned in above post) and I opened the file in remotemaster. Now, when I open the file I get an unknown remote error: "The upgrade file you are loading is for the remote "URC-881x/801x/601x". There is no remote with that exact name...etc.," - does this mean that I can't use this file with the 15-2133 (I know that I can select it from the remote drop down menu after the file has been loaded but I'm not sure that really means anything)?


oh, also: In the drop down there are a number of options for the 15-2133 but nothing exact, e.g., 15-2133 Extender 1 2k, or 15-2133 Kameleon 0.5k, etc.

Thanks much
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gjarboni
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Joined: 20 Sep 2003
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Location: Columbia, MD

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: very beginner questions regarding 15-2133 remote Reply with quote

cmose wrote:
So, the reason I'm trying to do this is that I recently received a 15-2133 and I'm having problems getting it to work with my onkyo tx-sr501 receiver. I called customer support and they downloaded code 1320 for my onkyo and code 1877 for my pace hd digital cable box. Unfortunately I was at work so I could't verify that everything worked quite right.

As far as we know, customer service won't customize the upgrade for you. They are going to send you what they have and that's it.

cmose wrote:

Anyway...I'm wondering if the route for me to take is to load up the "Onkyo TX-SR501 using NEC1 Combo (Official)" file I found in the files section and convert it to a wav and have that recorded to my remote.


This is possible but quite tricky. Using a JP1 cable would be much easier for you.

cmose wrote:

Here are my questions: Would doing this wipe out the data for my cable box that customer service downloaded to the remote at the same time they downloaded the onkyo code?


Yes uploading an upgrade has to wipe out any existing upgrades loaded by customer service. With a JP1 cable, however, you could keep them.

cmose wrote:

And lastly, I'd rather just learn the functions to the 15-2133 that I want from the onkyo remote, but it doesn't seem to want to do that (won't learn anything that is).

One major cause of learning failures is weak batteries in the source remote. Batteries can be strong enough to send a signal that the device recognizes, but too weak to send a signal that can be learned.
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gfb107
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The file you are loading into RM was created for one of the URC-881x, URC-801x, or URC-601x remotes. You need to pick one of those at that prompt. This allows RM to figure out how the functions are assigned to buttons. Once that has happened, you can then change the remote to the one you are actually using. IR should have told you which one it actually is when you downloaded from the remote.
At that point you should double check the function to button assignments, and then you are ready to go.
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mtakahar
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmose wrote:
oh, also: In the drop down there are a number of options for the 15-2133 but nothing exact, e.g., 15-2133 Extender 1 2k, or 15-2133 Kameleon 0.5k, etc.

As for which one to choose, my guess on the right one for you would be "RS 15-2133 Kameleon 2k".

Hal
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the great info folks - appreciate it!

I suppose I'll try putting some new batteries in my onkyo remote and try to learn a few of the keys that I absolutely want. As I understand it, without the jp1 cable I would lose the downloaded code for my pace cable box if I were to try to load a wav file for the onkyo onto the remote? - is there anyway to use the jp1 cable w/o having to solder (I understand that the 15-2133 doesn't actually have the pins in place, just a "header" for them) as me and soldering don't work well together.

Thanks again for all the help!

--n/m, found out that hovisdirect sells the kameleon package - is it true that one doesn't need the battery "holder" if one purchases the ultra cable?--
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: very beginner questions regarding 15-2133 remote Reply with quote

cmose wrote:
I called customer support and they downloaded code 1320 for my onkyo and code 1877 for my pace hd digital cable box.


According to Rob's devices.xls file 1877 is one of the Scientific Atlanta cable box codes and is built-in on the 15-2133. I don't know if the Pace uses the Scientific Atlanta code set. If so, I think they just told you to try 1877 rather than including it in the wav they downloaded. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't reuse that number if the code set were different.

cmose wrote:
load up the "Onkyo TX-SR501 using NEC1 Combo (Official)" file I found in the files section and convert it to a wav and have that recorded to my remote.


I don't have any data on 1320, and Rob's data says it's not built-in on the 15-2133, so I expect that is what they downloaded and Onkyo is consistent enough I expect you could do better starting with some JP1 Onkyo upgrade, such as the one you found.

If I'm understanding all this correctly, you can replace 1320 without worrying about losing 1877.

If I'm wrong about 1877 but you somehow identify which code set the Pace really uses, you could include a JP1 upgrade for that in the same wav with the Onkyo.

Using a cable to backup the upgrades you got from customer service and to decode learned signals would take away a lot of guesswork. I don't know anything about the mechanical details of connecting a cable to the 15-2133. But I expect someone else will answer that.
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks much for that info - I'll double check my manual and see if 1877 shows up in the codes list. If so I suppose I can just wipe the onkyo download with the file from here and try using the .wav method to get it on there.

Does anyone know of any tips or quirks to the wav method (e.g., is it ok to use headphones to get the audio to the remote, or anything like that).

thanks again - any suggestions on getting this thing into a wav would be greatly appreciated. Still not quite clear on that process.

oh, also, thanks to mtakahar on the suggestion of which 15-2133 to suggest from the RM drop down, however, I'm curious what the different distinctions actually mean, e.g., what's the difference between the 15-2133 0.5k and 15-2133 1k/2k/etc.,?
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read (but not personally verified) that the .wav receive hardware in the remote is an inductive pickup, not an audio pickup. That means it doesn't hear the sound, it detects the magnetic field used inside the speaker for creating the sound.

I'm not sure what that says about which forms of speaker might work, though I expect the tiny headphones I have wouldn't put out enough energy in either form (magnetic or sound) to be received by the remote.

The .5k/1k/2k refers to the size of the eeprom in the remote. I'm surprised to hear that smaller than 2K is available for the 2133. Generally, .5k would mean .wav upgrades aren't supported. For remotes that support both 1k and 2k eeproms upgrading by JP1 cable requires finding out which you have (that's easy to find out with the JP1 cable) but upgrading via .wav shouldn't require knowing whether the eeprom is 1k or 2k (using either rdf should produce the same .wav file if you create the .wav for the upgrade area only).
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks!
(after doing some more reading and hunting on the forum I think I might be ready to try this out - probably won't have time until tomorrow evening). Last question specific to the 15-2133 - I don't recall the process I went through with the customer service rep to set the remote up for theh download, I also recall needing to enter the new code once it was downloaded (I seem to recall that was no different then entering a standard code?).

thanks so much for all the help everyone! (of course, I might ask a few more questions once I actually sit down to do this Wink )
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question about using a JP1 cable with the 15-2133:

No soldering is required. The 15-2133 is constructed in such a way that if you did solder a 6-pin header onto the pads it would block the batteries. We have invented adapters for use with the Kameleon remotes. For the 15-2133 you would need two items, the first is called the "Kameleon Adapter" which holds the batteries in place while the battery cover is removed, and the second is called the "pogo pin adapter" which is used to connect your JP1 cable to the 6 pads in the Kameleon.

The pogo pin adapter looks like this:



And this is what the 15-2133 looks like with both adapters in place:


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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rob,
thanks much for the info - I think I'll try the wav method first though as it doesn't appear I would overwrite my pace code in the process. Does anyone have the steps for putting this remote into phone upgrade mode? Also, is it necessary to enter the new code "downloaded" by the wav upgrade once it has finished or does doing the upgrade this way take care of that for you (e.g., assigns it to the device selected in rm/ir.exe)?

thanks again!
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well...
seems to me I'm stuck now so any help here is greatly apprceciated:

I've loaded the upgrade into RemoteMaster and changed the remote to my 15-2133. Now, as I understand the instructions, I'm meant to copy the stuff from the output tab in RM to the Devices tab in IR.exe. Unfortunately, when I try to start IR.exe I get the following message: "Unable to initialize drivers for any JP1 interface..." and when it loads into IR I only have the General and the Raw Data tabs.

Now from looking around on the forum it seemed like this was a common error when no cable was attached - however, seeing as how I'm doing this without a cable, what am I supposed to do to get the devices tab up!?!?

thanks!

(Oh, btw, the upgrade I loaded up says something about a device combiner for the protocall - is that something I need to worry about/handle differently??)
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally, you would download your remote's memory before you copy the upgrade over, but as you don't have a JP1 cable, you should select File > New then select your remote from the list. This will format a generic layout for the Kameleon. You should then save this file. You should now copy your upgrade over to IR and then save the file.

Ignore the message about the drivers as you won't be using IR to actually load your remote.

I can't comment on the protocol question without knowing which upgrade file you're looking at (please provide a link to the file if you'd like one of us to look at it).
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cmose



Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,
thanks much - my problem is with IR, I don't seem to be able to get an device tab due to the error I reported.
thanks!
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