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Advice for creating one's "own" set of codes?

 
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dar63110



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Advice for creating one's "own" set of codes? Reply with quote

I'm a JP1 newbie but do have an JP1 enhanced URC-6131 that I was able to program using this group's software. I'm using the 6131 with a MythTV installation and consequently have full control over the configuration of the receiving end. The JP1 interface at least in theory gives me complete control over the transmit side as well. Instead of programming the 6131 and the Myth config files to match an existing set of codes (e.g. borrowed from Brand X's VCR) and have the problem that no Brand X device seems to fully encompass the button mapping I want to perform), why not create my own set of unique codes?

The problem is that I haven't found much information on the topic of developing unique code sets. My (perhaps naive) assumption was that the major industry players work with each other...presumably through an industry group...to make sure that a Brand A remote made in 2005 doesn't interfere with Brand B's, C's or D's IR code sets from prior years. From what I've read about "Sony IR protocol" vs. "NEC IR protocol" I've started to think this may not be the case and that each manufacturer has carved out an IR approach that, because it is unique, won't have conflicts assuming others are smart enough to steer clear. At the same time, there must be some answer to my question. A few years ago, when TiVo started out, how did they choose their code set, which apparently overlaps with no one elses?

It seems to me that someone could create a set of codes, alert the MythTV community, give UEIC the heads up in case they want to add the codes to their database (and thus to the ROM for future remote releases) and at some point JP1 fanciness may not even be needed. This could be a boon for future Myth users.

Thanks,
Darrell
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juluri



Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Don't reinvent the wheel......... Reply with quote

That's my 2cents. Why not just donwload the code for MS MCE remote,
and it should satisfy all your needs and still maintain compatibility.

You can define your own EFCs in KM or whatever and redefine/declare
them appropriately in MythTV

Hope that helps
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19463
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for creating one's "own" set of codes? Reply with quote

juluri wrote:
Why not just download the code for MS MCE remote, and it should satisfy all your needs and still maintain compatibility.

The MCE upgrades require a very large protocol upgrade, which is un-necessary in this case.

dar63110 wrote:
My (perhaps naive) assumption was that the major industry players work with each other...presumably through an industry group...to make sure that a Brand A remote made in 2005 doesn't interfere with Brand B's, C's or D's IR code sets from prior years. From what I've read about "Sony IR protocol" vs. "NEC IR protocol" I've started to think this may not be the case and that each manufacturer has carved out an IR approach that, because it is unique, won't have conflicts assuming others are smart enough to steer clear. At the same time, there must be some answer to my question. A few years ago, when TiVo started out, how did they choose their code set, which apparently overlaps with no one elses?

We don't know exactly how they keep track of who gets which codes, but the assumption is that there is some sort of governing council for each protocol. The main protocol is the NEC protocol (which comes in a couple of different flavors) and Tivo uses a slightly customized variant of the NEC protocol, so I assume they were assigned the device codes that they are using by the NEC council. Some manufacturers, like Sony for example, make things simpler for themselves by inventing their own protocols. So whenever Sony invents a new device they simply assign themselves a new device code without needing to go to some 3rd party.

In your case, as you won't be programming a remote that will be mass produced and sold to consumers, who cares what code you use, just so long as you don't pick a code that works one of your other devices. In order to keep things simple, I would recommend that you use the NEC1 protocol, then just pick some random device codes (like dev1 = 123 and dev2 = 234). [Note: the max value for an NEC device code is 255].

Once you've picked the protocol and device codes (in RM or KM), select OBC mode and then pick a device mode that has the best complement of buttons to suit your needs. With the URC-6131 remote, the best mode is probably "VCR" (aka "DVD", "PVR" etc). Then go to the Functions sheet and list all of the MythTV functions. In the OBC column give give all the functions a unique OBC code (eg, start with 0 and number the rest sequentially). Then go to the Buttons sheet and assign these functions to physical buttons.

This way you will have a unique code emitted for each button pressed, you will then have to program your MythTV to recognize each of them.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for creating one's "own" set of codes? Reply with quote

dar63110 wrote:
why not create my own set of unique codes?


First you should answer "why create your own set of unique codes?"

It's somewhat more work (depending on how hard you want to avoid conflicts with obscure devices you don't know about) to create a code set vs. tweaking an existing one (increase the number of commands if necessary). So what benefit justifies the extra work?

dar63110 wrote:
someone could create a set of codes, alert the MythTV community,


That's the heart of the question. What benefit is there to having other people in the MythTV community use the same code set?

If they have just as good control over the receive end as you do, they can each independently select whatever code set they like. If they don't have a JP1 remote, they may want to select the code set from some common enough device that they don't own, so that almost any "universal" remote would include it.
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classicsat



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your case, I'd do what Robman said.

I made my own, kind of, because I built an A/V switcher that used a remote decoder that has a binary output (which is representative of the OBC).

I started with the protocol and Device code for that chip, and built the OBCs to create the binary pattern needed to trigger various actions: the lower two bits were the binary code for the source, two middle bits for my audio A/B and RF bypass toggles, and two latch controls (main and sub), which latch the lower two bits to the respective A/V switch chip.
Apart from the remore decoder IR and IR receiver module, the logic is all simple CMOS 4013s
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dar63110



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for creating one's "own" set of codes? Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
dar63110 wrote:
why not create my own set of unique codes?


First you should answer "why create your own set of unique codes?"
...
What benefit is there to having other people in the MythTV community use the same code set?

If they have just as good control over the receive end as you do, they can each independently select whatever code set they like. If they don't have a JP1 remote, they may want to select the code set from some common enough device that they don't own, so that almost any "universal" remote would include it.


I suppose I should be floating this topic in the Myth community as well and see if there is any buy in. Right now every Myth user must struggle with the issue of adapting a 3rd party remote control. If there were a standard set of Myth-exclusive codes the UEIC's of the world would at least have the option of including this set in their future ROM releases. At that point you could buy any OFA model and type in the appropriate "MythTV" button combo and be set. In the meantime, only one person (e.g. me) would have to create the Myth and JP1 profiles and place these online. Those that don't want to settle for mediocre remotes from Hauppauge, etc., can then go the JP1-route to expand their remote control selection options.

In essence I'd like to see the "remote control" portion of the considerable task of creating a MythTV system made a bit easier. And the only way I can see to have a universal solution is to have one's own codes. Perhaps figuring this out is the road less traveled but I figured it would be an interesting learning experience in the meantime.

Darrell
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what's involved in getting the MythTV to respond to these randomly selected codes, but if someone where to create an upgrade file for the MythTV that matches your JP1 upgrade, I suppose there might be some interest in that.

But if the user still has to go through the process of teaching the MythTV to respond to each button individually, I don't see your upgrade having much appeal beyond your own personal use.
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classicsat



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay then, what I think your community needs to do is co-opt a couple of existing codes, and have a database of those codes learned once, which you share amongst yourselves.

EG, agree on VCR 0047 (which is an RCA VCR, present on many cheaper non UEI/JP1 remotes also), one person learns the code, posts the file the learn creates, and puts it on a website somewhere, which another user dowloads and installs into their software, and sets their remote for that code.
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