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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: Sharp Combo Protocol- Extra keypresses? |
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Here I am again 
I wrote an upgrade for the Sharp LC60E69U LCD TV. I noticed while testing that all the buttons worked, but many of them produce the equivalent of 2 presses of the key, so on those keys I'd have to barely tap to get a single keypress. An example might be the Mute button, which would just flicker, or a number key, where pressing 2 would get 22.
It uses the Sharp Combo (Official) protocol. Even with the remote's native 0818 (TV) protocol, programming the EFCs have the same result. The remote is an RCA RCRP05BR.
Is there anything I can do that would have the TV see only one press? I searched the forum a lot and didn't see anything related to this code.
Hamsterman |
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cauer29
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Sharp Combo Protocol- Extra keypresses? |
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| Hamsterman wrote: | Here I am again
I wrote an upgrade for the Sharp LC60E69U LCD TV. I noticed while testing that all the buttons worked, but many of them produce the equivalent of 2 presses of the key, so on those keys I'd have to barely tap to get a single keypress. An example might be the Mute button, which would just flicker, or a number key, where pressing 2 would get 22.
It uses the Sharp Combo (Official) protocol. Even with the remote's native 0818 (TV) protocol, programming the EFCs have the same result. The remote is an RCA RCRP05BR.
Is there anything I can do that would have the TV see only one press? I searched the forum a lot and didn't see anything related to this code.
Hamsterman |
I have seen that problem with a Samsung STB where the JP1 protocol definition was just ever so slightly long on the lead out time. That is, once the basic key is sent, if you continue to press the key, the remote sends the key again and again for as long as you press the key and if the leadout is too long, then the device (STB in my case) interprets it as separate keypresses. So, you get the effect of multiple keypresses. The leadout time is just the dead time between IR transmissions.
The fix was to slightly shorten the leadout time for the protocol such that the STB intepreted the repeated key as just one long keypress instead of separate individual keypresses.
I don't know anything about the protocol used by your Sharp TV, but it may be that something similar is happening.
Others here will lead you down a different path with tweaking the number of repeats sent. That can also work at the potential expense of reliability.
It is hard to know exactly what is the problem even if one solution or another works, without characterizing the precise behavior of the original remote.
A.A. |
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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamsterman wrote: | Thanks. I sure seem to know how to pick unusual devices.
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If you were not a JP1er, you'd just be living with it. 
So what kind of repeating do you want?
If you capture a couple of learns, we can make sure its not a leadout time issue that caucer29 suspects.
We can also
Turn Repeating off for this upgrade
Or
change it so only (Ch+/-. Vol+/- FFwd/REW) repeat when held
Or do you need something exotic? |
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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: | | Hamsterman wrote: | Thanks. I sure seem to know how to pick unusual devices.
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If you were not a JP1er, you'd just be living with it.
So what kind of repeating do you want?
If you capture a couple of learns, we can make sure its not a leadout time issue that caucer29 suspects.
We can also
Turn Repeating off for this upgrade
Or
change it so only (Ch+/-. Vol+/- FFwd/REW) repeat when held
Or do you need something exotic? |
Well, I am curious about how to turn repeating on and off. As I now have a soundbar, I don't really need repeating volume keys.
For troubleshooting, when I do a keylearn, what should I be looking for? The upgrade was made from decoded learned keys.
Thanks in advance,
Hamsterman |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Hamsterman wrote: |
Well, I am curious about how to turn repeating on and off. As I now have a soundbar, I don't really need repeating volume keys.
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What we are going to do is replace the sharp combo protocol with a custom protocol that fixes the repeating problem. In some protocols this is just a matter of changing a setting and recompiling. In others we have to do some assembly language programing. We have two ways of doing this. We have PB (an excel spreadsheet) and we have RemoteMaster has PB capabilities as well.
| Quote: |
For troubleshooting, when I do a keylearn, what should I be looking for? The upgrade was made from decoded learned keys.
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We need two keys. A non-repeating key like the Mute button, and a repeating button like volume.
We want to see the repeating characteristics. Make sure to do a long hold on the OEM button while doing the learn, so you capture the repeating.
Then we'll look at the leadout time to see if it conforms to the timeout shot by the upgrade, and we'll know if the OEM remote sends repeats or not.
If you want help on the protocol, post your learns. |
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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. Custom Protocols sound fun, I haven't hand coded assembly language for 30 years...
I've learned a few keys and re-uploaded the RMIR file:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=11090
The mute & input buttons repeat, but shouldn't. The other keys can repeat, but they often do a quick doublepress, THEN repeat.
I'll look into the protocols soon.
Thanks a lot, you all have been quite helpful.
Hamsterman |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Thanks for the info. Custom Protocols sound fun, I haven't hand coded assembly language for 30 years... |
It had been a long time for me too, but I found JP1-ing was enough to make me dust off the skills and give it a go.
Hamsterman, looking at the OEM learns, they look EXTREMELY close to what the protocol is sending.
These are the learns from the OEM remote correct?
Its hard for me to believe that a 100 microseconds in repeat time is enough to cause the repeating. |
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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks for the info. Custom Protocols sound fun, I haven't hand coded assembly language for 30 years... |
It had been a long time for me too, but I found JP1-ing was enough to make me dust off the skills and give it a go.
Hamsterman, looking at the OEM learns, they look EXTREMELY close to what the protocol is sending.
These are the learns from the OEM remote correct?
Its hard for me to believe that a 100 microseconds in repeat time is enough to cause the repeating. |
Actually, the learned keys have the same issue. On my learning & programmed remote, the first keypress often results in two keypresses.
Only the OEM remote doesn't have the issue. They repeat faster than I like on the OEM remote, but that's a different issue.
Hamsterman |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamsterman wrote: | Actually, the learned keys have the same issue. On my learning & programmed remote, the first keypress often results in two keypresses.
Only the OEM remote doesn't have the issue. They repeat faster than I like on the OEM remote, but that's a different issue.
Hamsterman |
Hmm, then shortening the leadout time isn't going to do anything. The learn shows the signals are repeating. Can you take a look at the IR on say the mute key with a digital camera the one on the phone will work. What we are looking for is to see if you can detect how many repeats your OEM mute key is sending. You might be able to see the 44000 microsecond leadout dead time. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Hamsterman,
Since we might need to experiment with this upgrade, its a lot easier to do this in IR than RMIR.
If you are running in windows, save the RMIR file that contains your sharp combo upgrade into an IR file.
Use IR.EXE to open the IR file.
Navigate to the Protcols tab
Press Add
Copy the following code from the word Upgrade, all the way the word End
Paste it into The IR "Upgrade Protocol Window"
Upload it to your remote
test to see if this will operate your TV.
It is sending 4 frames of data on any keypress. We know it requires at least 4, but I am not sure where the meinimum ends and repeating starts.
Four frames of data
| Code: |
Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 9C (S3C8+) PB v4.01
3D 92 02 8B 0D 49 05 08 00 84 01 75 00 84 03 87
83 C2 E6 09 04 E6 24 03 20 10 0C 05 E4 03 05 60
05 90 05 0A FC B0 C6 A6 0D 02 EB 03 E6 0D 05 F6
01 46 60 04 60 05 00 09 A6 09 00 ED FF 2F AF
End
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_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Worked great, Vickyg2003! There is only one command per keypress, and they do not repeat. I tried input, menu, mute, and the up/down keys.
A note to those installing IR.exe for the first time, you will have to set the properties for IR.exe in Win7 to "unblock" and "run as administrator" in order for the JP1.x interface to work. This is true even if your login account is administrator already.
Hamsterman |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Here is an RDMU file with the custom executor
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=11111
You can now go back to RMIR.
Delete the old 1818 and add the new 1818 and you should be good to go.
Trying to do this in RMIR gets a little difficult, because it holds the information across all sessions. |
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Hamsterman
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome! I loaded a RMIR with my old update, deleted it, and loaded in your update with the custom protocol. It worked perfectly.
The only difficulty I had was when I tried to download from the remote in RMIR with the IR custom protocol, as it would hang up. I just 'blind' uploaded after adding another device upgrade just to make sure I actually uploaded something to the remote.
Thanks a lot!
Hamsterman |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Hamsterman wrote: | The only difficulty I had was when I tried to download from the remote in RMIR with the IR custom protocol, as it would hang up. I just 'blind' uploaded after adding another device upgrade just to make sure I actually uploaded something to the remote.
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The whole purpose of RMIR is to have a well documented remote. Repeated downloads kind of defeats the purpose. Once you do the initial upload, all communications should be from RMIR to the Remote. Your RMIR file will have all the functions and documentation for every upgrade. Your RMIR file will have notes and comments. Your remote doesn't have any unused functions or any notes. When you download from the remote, RMIR does all sorts of mathematical acrobatics to TRY to determine what was in your remote, has no information on the notes, or functions that don't match the buttons they are on.
If you look at your previous files, when you downloaded the learns for me, the Sharp Combo, turned into a Denon Combo. That is just a small sample of what happens. In this case, with the custom protocol, it didn't like it too well and simply died trying.
Now IR doesn't try to guess what's there and make it into english, so all you lose is your notes and original function names, but RMIR wants to build upgrade information for you, and that sometimes doesn't work.
The reason I had you use IR, was I thought we'd have to do more than one iteration to find a working # of repeat frames for the protocol. If we had, RMIR starts making all sorts of decisions that are not in our best interest. RM crosstalks with other sessions, and can corrupt other upgrades. So even though RMIR allows you to customize a protocol, its not real happy about it. |
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