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Help with Sony DVD Upgrade with Discretes
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Help with Sony DVD Upgrade with Discretes Reply with quote

This is my second foray into the JP1 world and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I have bumped into a problem with a Sony DVD upgrade (http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=10257). According to all info I can find, I have the discrete ON/OFF code correct and all outward appearances are that the file uploads properly to my URC8910 learning remote using a Tommy USB cable with adapter.

What I find is that the Power Off discrete is acting like a power toggle and the Power On discrete does nothing. I am hoping it is a bone-headed beginner problem and that one of you can point out the error of my ways. I have swapped the mapping of the keys between L1 and L2 buttons and the odd functionality follows the changes so I feel I am uploading the file correctly.

I was able to create upgrades for the other devices in my signature without too much trouble so I feel I have a fair grasp of the basics.

I am using the jar version of RMIR version v2.01 on Windows 7 64 bit.

Thanks.
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URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: Help with Sony DVD Upgrade with Discretes Reply with quote

bshonbeck wrote:
What I find is that the Power Off discrete is acting like a power toggle and the Power On discrete does nothing. I am hoping it is a bone-headed beginner problem and that one of you can point out the error of my ways. I have swapped the mapping of the keys between L1 and L2 buttons and the odd functionality follows the changes so I feel I am uploading the file correctly.

I found a match for the Sony DVP-SR500H on the Logitech Harmony Database. So, I Recorded the IR signals with the JP1 tools to create the respective files.
To be honest, there wasn't that much difference between your files and mine, except for the following:
  • Open/Close (OBC:21 vs I didn't have)
  • TopMenu (You didn't have vs OBC:26)
  • Rewind (OBC:34 vs OBC:51)
  • FastForward (OBC:35 vs OBC:52)
  • Advance (OBC:20, Sony12 sub-device 98 vs Sony20 subdevice 26.98)
  • Fast/SlowPlay (OBC:59, Sony12 sub-device 98 vs Sony20 subdevice 26.98)

It is quite possible that Sony did not program this particular DVD player to adhere to the discrete power on and off signals as listed on the (http://www.hifi-remote.com/sony/Sony_dvd.htm) web page. So, I don't think you did anything wrong. Also, it is very possible the discrete power signals are actually initiated by another protocol, device, sub-device, and/or even OBC.

You may want to check if HDMI-CEC is enabled. It could be inappropriately signaling or disrupting the power commands.
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Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider trying OBCs 46and 47 using Sony15 device 80. That device is used with HT systems from Sony, and those also use 26.73 for DVD commands. This DVD may have the same behavior as home Theater systems.
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Help with Sony DVD Upgrade with Discretes Reply with quote

eferz wrote:

I found a match for the Sony DVP-SR500H on the Logitech Harmony Database.
....
To be honest, there wasn't that much difference between your files and mine, except for the following:
  • Open/Close (OBC:21 vs I didn't have)
  • TopMenu (You didn't have vs OBC:26)
  • Rewind (OBC:34 vs OBC:51)
  • FastForward (OBC:35 vs OBC:52)
  • Advance (OBC:20, Sony12 sub-device 98 vs Sony20 subdevice 26.98)
  • Fast/SlowPlay (OBC:59, Sony12 sub-device 98 vs Sony20 subdevice 26.98)


You may want to check if HDMI-CEC is enabled. It could be inappropriately signaling or disrupting the power commands.


Thanks for the great work on this! I disconnected the HDMI cable and the problem remains so I don't believe it is the CEC.

The last two bullet items bring up a question though. I struggled some implementing an upgrade with Sony20 and two sub-devices. I see from your upgrade that I should have chosen the Sony Combo (12/15/20) protocol so I will corrct that. Would the IR signature have shown a Sony12 protocol intermixed in the Sony20 readings if required? I am trying to understand how to choose the correct protocol when sub-devices are involved.
_________________
URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
DishNetwork VIP-612 Satellite w/DVR
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
Consider trying OBCs 46and 47 using Sony15 device 80. That device is used with HT systems from Sony, and those also use 26.73 for DVD commands. This DVD may have the same behavior as home Theater systems.


Great suggestion! However when I tried this neither button had any effect. I am coming to the conclusion that it may be as eferz said: Sony may not have implemented power discrete support in this model.

So unless further thoughts on this come along I will be in the market for a discrete-friendly budget DVD player - any suggestions?
_________________
URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
DishNetwork VIP-612 Satellite w/DVR
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4173

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to your signature you already have a blu-ray player with discretes that can also play DVDs. If this is for a second room, I recommend an inexpensive blu-ray player instead. Most current ones (sony, panasonic, etc.) have discretes. I think Samsung and Insignia don't.

In any case, if you load an extender into your 8910 you can use ToadTogs to get discrete functionality. It's also possible Play may act as a discrete on and Play-Power could be used for discrete off.
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the second DVD player is supposed to be a cheapie to play the majority of our DVD collection. The hope is that this prolongs the life of the more expensive Yamaha BluRay player.

I appreciate your suggestions but I would rather find a discrete-friendly DVD player than use the TOADTOG approach or the simulated Off with a Play / Power command combination. This is mostly due to the fact that many electronic failures are cause by the thermal shock of an On/Off cycle and this would be artificially increasing these.

I got this email after coming back from the local Sears with a Samsung D5500 only to find that there are no discretes for it. The overly confident young salesperson was confident they existed! Sad Oh well, back to the search.
_________________
URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
DishNetwork VIP-612 Satellite w/DVR
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4173

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I confirmed Samsung lacked discretes earlier. On the low end, the $80 Panasonic BD75 and Sony S185 have discretes. Thermal shock may be a concern on big things like amps and tvs, but it's a non-issue on things like disc players. The drive and lasers will go long before thermal shock effects get them.
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with Sony DVD Upgrade with Discretes Reply with quote

bshonbeck wrote:
Would the IR signature have shown a Sony12 protocol intermixed in the Sony20 readings if required? I am trying to understand how to choose the correct protocol when sub-devices are involved.

Yes, it would. Here's what I do. If there are multiple protocols like Sony or NEC, I'll go through each one of them to see what options I have under the Setup and Functions tab of RM.

Since there was one device protocol, "Sony20", and one main device, "26", but had two sub-devices, "98" and "72". I had to find the Sony protocol which gave multiple Sony20 sub-devices. Sony 20 only allows one device and sub device combination a long with one Sony 12 device. So, that definitely was not the correct one to use. Luckily, I found that the Sony Combo (12/15/20) had the option for four different Sony20 sub-devices.

Otherwise, it also helps to read the any notes included associated with each protocol. Also the DecodeIR.html is a good reference document.

bshonbeck wrote:
The last two bullet items bring up a question though. I struggled some implementing an upgrade with Sony20 and two sub-devices. I see from your upgrade that I should have chosen the Sony Combo (12/15/20) protocol so I will corrct that.

I uploaded your "Sony DVD DVP-SR500H With Discretes.rmdu" file into my Comcast-URC-1067 (CS301009). However after shooting your signals to IR Scope, I get very different readings for four commands. I uploaded the the ICT file here (http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=10261)

Here's a summary:

In light of these findings, you may want to upload my RMDU file into your remote to see if my discrete power signals will work with your Sony DVD DVP-SR500H.

EDIT: Nevermind, just realized that I assigned your power discretes to buttons which were already used for TV punch throughs (volume). When I reassigned them to different buttons then it decoded as expected. However, I still expected your Sony12 commands to decode as a 98 device per your RMDU, but they still came up as "2" regardless where they were assigned.
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Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still expected your Sony12 commands to decode as a 98 device per your RMDU, but they still came up as "2" regardless where they were assigned.


That's curious! What do do you make of that?

On a separate note, I see my upgrade has been posted to the BluRay DVD file section. This is actually not a BluRay player, just an ordinary DVD so should it be moved?

Thanks again for your help with my problem. I have been researching alternate DVD players and I think I will get a Sony BDP-S480 or a Panasonic DMP-BDT110 and return the unopened Samsung D5500 I picked up today.

Later...
_________________
URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
DishNetwork VIP-612 Satellite w/DVR
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4173

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both that panny and a similar sony (S570). They're good players. The panny is better at DVD upconversion and Netflix, but the Sony is better at everything else (DLNA file streaming, more streaming services like slacker and crackle, etc.). I can confirm both have discrete on/off codes. The sony is also good for playing one CD at a time because it has gracenote and displays cover art and track names automatically. Panny doesn't.
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
I have both that panny and a similar sony (S570). They're good players.


The Sony is on order - eeeha. The original Sony will be relegated to solitary in my wife's sewing room. Smile After thinking about it more, I could not bring myself to get another Panasonic after having both my Pansonic DVD recorder and 5 disc player die within two months of each other. I'll give Sony a chance - never having had one.
_________________
URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
DishNetwork VIP-612 Satellite w/DVR
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eferz wrote:
I still expected your Sony12 commands to decode as a 98 device per your RMDU, but they still came up as "2" regardless where they were assigned.
bshonbeck wrote:
That's curious! What do do you make of that?

I don't know but reading the protocol notes under "Sony 12/15", "Device numbers 32 and greater cannot be Sony12." So, I'm guessing your device value of "98" was out of bound for whatever calculations is used for the Sony20 protocol. Not sure how or why it came up with "2", so you'll need an answer from someone who can actually understand the protocol's assembly code.

eferz wrote:
On a separate note, I see my upgrade has been posted to the BluRay DVD file section. This is actually not a BluRay player, just an ordinary DVD so should it be moved?

Umm... actually, that's my RMDU file. I'll see if I can get a moderator to move the file. Btw, your file is still sitting in the Diagnostics bin.

eferz wrote:
Thanks again for your help with my problem.

You're welcome. Glad to help.
_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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bshonbeck



Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: NH, United States

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eferz wrote:
Btw, your file is still sitting in the Diagnostics bin.


What is expected for diagnostic files that have served their purpose? I cannot find any way to delete them so do they just collect there?
_________________
URC 8910 (New) OFA Remote & Tommy USB
Yamaha RX-471 Receiver
Yamaha BD-S671 BluRay DVD
Yamaha CD-C600 CD Changer
Sony DVP SR500H DVD
Sony DVP-S480 BluRay DVD
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 Plasma TV
DishNetwork VIP-612 Satellite w/DVR
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bshonbeck wrote:
What is expected for diagnostic files that have served their purpose? I cannot find any way to delete them so do they just collect there?

I don't know. But, I wonder what that button does.


_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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