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problem with JP1.x interface and RS 15-100
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: problem with JP1.x interface and RS 15-100 Reply with quote

I am having a problem getting RS15-100 to work with my jp1.x cable.
I followed Tommy's instructions and built JP1.2/1.3 interface. I didn't have 2N3904 available so I've used 3 MMBT3904 instead. I also used RS232 male connector as my desktop PC DB9 connector isn't exposed and I have female-female straight through RS232C cable plugged in it.
When I run JP1X Test all characters light up on the LCD and red LED has the following flash sequence: long flash, long pause, long flash, short pause, 2 short flashes. So it flashes 4 times and I get "No JP1.x compatible remote found!" meassage in JP1x Test window. Any ideas what might cause this. Should I try running a different debug tool that spits out some kind of error message?
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed the correction note in Tommy's instructions that R6 value should be increased to 100kOhms from 4.7kOhm. I will fix the circuit and report back.
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

changing R6 to 100kOhm made no difference. Please help.
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added video of what's going on to youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN8H_i1ls-s
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19933
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of variables here because not only are you using a home made cable, but I assume you also soldered the interface onto the remote.

So, first question, have you successfully used this remote with any other cable? I'm guessing not, so next question, did you leave pin 5 un-connected? (If not, you should have).

I don't know what else we can diagnose based on the information posted. I'm guessing that the experts would need to see pics of your board to maybe spot a mistake.
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, thanks for the response.

No, I haven't used this remote with another cable. This is the first time I own JP1.3 remote so I had to build the cable/interface for it. I never soldered a wire to pin5 on PCB.
http://img375.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=imag0052j.jpg I've uploaded some pictures. Note there are total of 8 resistors. One is used as a stress relief for cables soldered to RS232 connector (which is a male connector btw) and R6 is formed with 2 resistors in series (4.7k and 92+k).
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unclemiltie
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1790
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which pcb are you talking about?

If on the pc end, that could be your problem. You can't leave the wire on pin 5 connected to the remote end connector. It acts like an antenna and causes the interface not to work. You need to cut it at the remote end

If that isn't it I would suggest you get your hands on another jp1.3 remote and test your cable, then make the 15-100 work. The 15-13x remotes are on clearance from radio shack for a couple of bucks if you can find then. Otherwise the red button comcast can usually be had for less than $10 shipped on eBay. Both come with the jp1 pins installed. Another choice is the rya rcrp05b that is on sale often at walgreens
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unclemiltie wrote:
Which pcb are you talking about?

If on the pc end, that could be your problem. You can't leave the wire on pin 5 connected to the remote end connector. It acts like an antenna and causes the interface not to work. You need to cut it at the remote end

I only count 5 wires coming from the remote's PCB, so I think he's ok with this one.
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have cable attached to pin5 on remote PCB. I verified the break-out board with jp1.3 interface and connectivity from remote PCB to connector. I took the remote with me to try on another PC at friends house but forgot to take female-female RS232C cable. So no way to verify. Sad
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cauer29



Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 235

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: problem with JP1.x interface and RS 15-100 Reply with quote

tpaxadpom wrote:
I am having a problem getting RS15-100 to work with my jp1.x cable.
I followed Tommy's instructions and built JP1.2/1.3 interface. I didn't have 2N3904 available so I've used 3 MMBT3904 instead. I also used RS232 male connector as my desktop PC DB9 connector isn't exposed and I have female-female straight through RS232C cable plugged in it.
When I run JP1X Test all characters light up on the LCD and red LED has the following flash sequence: long flash, long pause, long flash, short pause, 2 short flashes. So it flashes 4 times and I get "No JP1.x compatible remote found!" meassage in JP1x Test window. Any ideas what might cause this. Should I try running a different debug tool that spits out some kind of error message?


I'm a bit suspicious of this alleged female to female "straight through" cable. If it really is a straight through cable, that is a very unusual cable, as almost all female to female cables will be crossover type. That is, Tx on one side becomes Rx on the other side and vice versa. The handshake lines get reversed too.

A.A.
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the cable I bought from RS http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049676#
I checked the continuity last night and it is straight through, that is
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3
4 - 4
5 - 5
6 - 6
7 - 7
8 - 8
9 - 9
It also has this diagram on the packaging. So I eliminated the cable. I started to go through troubleshooting guide. If i connect line 2 and 3 on the cable end that plugs into jp1.3 cable I get all packets back. The next step is to get 2 1~10kOhm resistors and do some further diagnostic.
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cauer29



Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 235

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tpaxadpom wrote:
This is the cable I bought from RS http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049676#
I checked the continuity last night and it is straight through, that is
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3
4 - 4
5 - 5
6 - 6
7 - 7
8 - 8
9 - 9
It also has this diagram on the packaging. So I eliminated the cable. I started to go through troubleshooting guide. If i connect line 2 and 3 on the cable end that plugs into jp1.3 cable I get all packets back. The next step is to get 2 1~10kOhm resistors and do some further diagnostic.


Well, if you verified it and it appears that there are numerous bad reviews on the radio shack website from folks expecting it to be a crossover null-modem type cable, then I believe that this is a straight thru cable, as unusual as it seems.

Go ahead and do the 10k resistor testing, though it didn't help me when my cable wouldn't work. The 10k resistor/9V battery test worked perfectly, but it still wouldn't talk to the remote. Since the software is attempting to support multiple different types of remotes, it does a lot of weird stuff that gets in the way of trying to figure out why it doesn't work on a particular remote. There is a document around here somewhere that goes through the whole mess of how it determines what type of remote it is seeing. It would've been much easier when I was trying to debug my cable, if I could've stripped out all the crap for the other remote types and just did the jp1.3 straight. In the end, I ultimately determined that somewhere along the way, the Tx line from the IC in the remote was no longer able to drive. I had purchased 2 15-100s at the time, for something on the order of $3 each. So, it wasn't a big deal. Still, it was very maddening since it did actually work for a fleeting moment on the first 15-100. By the time I figured out that the first remote's Tx line was bad, I'd built a second cable from scratch and that one worked perfectly with the second 15-100.

IR still fails the interface test if I leave it on "auto", but if I force it to JP1.x serial, then it works.

A.A.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19933
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Tommy's guide to trouble shooting a serial flash interface:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=5964
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you Robman. I was using this guide yeasterday. I'm going to pick up some 10k resistors to finish the debugging.
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tpaxadpom



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cauer29 wrote:
tpaxadpom wrote:
This is the cable I bought from RS http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049676#
I checked the continuity last night and it is straight through, that is
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3
4 - 4
5 - 5
6 - 6
7 - 7
8 - 8
9 - 9
It also has this diagram on the packaging. So I eliminated the cable. I started to go through troubleshooting guide. If i connect line 2 and 3 on the cable end that plugs into jp1.3 cable I get all packets back. The next step is to get 2 1~10kOhm resistors and do some further diagnostic.


Well, if you verified it and it appears that there are numerous bad reviews on the radio shack website from folks expecting it to be a crossover null-modem type cable, then I believe that this is a straight thru cable, as unusual as it seems.

Go ahead and do the 10k resistor testing, though it didn't help me when my cable wouldn't work. The 10k resistor/9V battery test worked perfectly, but it still wouldn't talk to the remote. Since the software is attempting to support multiple different types of remotes, it does a lot of weird stuff that gets in the way of trying to figure out why it doesn't work on a particular remote. There is a document around here somewhere that goes through the whole mess of how it determines what type of remote it is seeing. It would've been much easier when I was trying to debug my cable, if I could've stripped out all the crap for the other remote types and just did the jp1.3 straight. In the end, I ultimately determined that somewhere along the way, the Tx line from the IC in the remote was no longer able to drive. I had purchased 2 15-100s at the time, for something on the order of $3 each. So, it wasn't a big deal. Still, it was very maddening since it did actually work for a fleeting moment on the first 15-100. By the time I figured out that the first remote's Tx line was bad, I'd built a second cable from scratch and that one worked perfectly with the second 15-100.

IR still fails the interface test if I leave it on "auto", but if I force it to JP1.x serial, then it works.

A.A.


A,A, this is very informative post. I took jp1.3 interface, RS232 cable to my mom's place. I found 10k and 7+k resistors and ran the test. When I connected the battery I just saw some garbage in the receive window. So my interface failed the test. At this point I should probably buy new components (at the very least transistors in TO-92 package) and start from scratch. Crying or Very sad
I bought 2 15-100 for $2.97 at Radio Shack. I thought it was price mistake but the sales clerk told me it wasn't. I bought one then called other stores and found another one. So I have one spare remote. Though I hope the first one is going to cooperate once I fix interface issues.
It would be very helpful if someone could measure Vbe and Vce voltages on their inferface when it is plugged into PC.
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