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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Just want to say thanks to everyone on these forums (fora?) for their help and support. I now have my new extended remote up and running and it is SWEET! (And much faster than my previous implementation w/ extender... I wonder why that is.. maybe I've become more efficient). I've had to get creative too with upgrade / keymove memory space because the XMP protocol we're talking about here takes up a LOT of space. Just wanted to give a shout out to all the thread owners / experts / other people who have provided their feedback, advice and opinions. I couldn't have done it without you's, thanks to all for your help!
I'll be a fan of JP1 for life... even if I never even dabble in JP1.x stuff which didn't really even exist last time I went thru this process  |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you post your IR file, we might be able to offer some suggestions to further conserve memory.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | If you post your IR file, we might be able to offer some suggestions to further conserve memory. |
Sure you want me to post in the file section in the Diagnosis Area? I'm at work but later tonight when I get home I'll gladly post my IR file. I'm sure you will have fun going to town on it ... there is no doubt there are plenty of inefficiencies built into it (I think I use way too many keymoves in general, but I really just love having an activity-based config, such as to have both TV and Stereo volume controls active on the same device button as my Tivo, and my separate DVR, etc.) |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the Diagnosis Area is good.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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mdavej
Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4501
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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From a quick glance at this, I think you could save a lot of keymoves for your News, Music, etc. by making those global macros instead so one set works in all device modes. You'd just need to rethink the one device that is different (AUX). You should also consider some device multiplexing and better use of the extender's key group mapping, i.e., if the AUX macro used M_CBL (or O_CBL, I forget exactly which one), then you'd save a lot of key moves. If the majority of those key groups come from a different device, use the appropriate device's key group command, and code the exceptions as key moves.
I'm also surprised you had to load the nec combo and panasonic combo protocols. I thought the 2104 had those already. You may want to take a look at that as well.
My 2 cents. |
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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mdavej wrote: | | From a quick glance at this, I think you could save a lot of keymoves for your News, Music, etc. by making those global macros instead so one set works in all device modes. You'd just need to rethink the one device that is different (AUX). |
Yes this dawned on me too. Makes perfect sense.
| mdavej wrote: | | You should also consider some device multiplexing and better use of the extender's key group mapping, i.e., if the AUX macro used M_CBL (or O_CBL, I forget exactly which one), then you'd save a lot of key moves. If the majority of those key groups come from a different device, use the appropriate device's key group command, and code the exceptions as key moves. |
What does "device multiplexing" mean? I have heard that term, but don't really know what it means. Does it simply refer to mixing & matching key groups in a particular global device macro? I.e. instead of AUX = M_AUX, C_AUX, T_AUX, O_AUX, V_AUX, would an example of device multiplexing on the AUX global macro be V_AUX, O_TV, M_CBL, C_CBL, T_CBL? Or does it refer to something completely different, in which case I have some learning to do.
| mdavej wrote: | I'm also surprised you had to load the nec combo and panasonic combo protocols. I thought the 2104 had those already. You may want to take a look at that as well.
My 2 cents. |
I borrowed that from my original setup when I programmed the remote 3+ years ago and was a bit more naive (who am I kidding, I'm still naive  )
I will look into that... is the best way to check to just look at the documentation that came with my remote which includes all the device codes? That wouldn't tell me what protocol is being used though... |
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3FG
Expert
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3367
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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The easy way to find out if a remote contains a particular protocol (executor, really) is to use Vicky's Lookup Tool-- link at the top of this page.
Select "by Protocol", choose a protocol name, and select your remote. Cicking search will show all setup codes which use that executor.
The 2104 has NEC1 Combo, but no NEC 2 or 4 device combos. It has the Panasonic Official combo |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What does "device multiplexing" mean? I have heard that term, but don't really know what it means. |
Multi-Plexing is where you change the setupcode with one key press.
Multi-Plexing is often used when you have more equipment than you have device buttons.
I use multiplexing for different activities on the same device.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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mdavej
Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4501
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry. I didn't mean to give the impression that key groups and multiplexing were related. The key groups work just like you said. It looked like the way you're mixing devices, some judicious use of key groups could save some key moves.
I mentioned multiplexing because it looked like you were trying to use one device mode for a couple of different unrelated devices, like 2 or 3 different VCR's. In a case like that, it would be better to mulitplex (change setup codes on the fly, like Vicky said). So pressing VCR would let you operate VCR1, shift-VCR would let you operate VCR2, etc. |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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You sure do have a lot of stuff in there. It might help if you were to give a brief summary of everything that you have set up, and how you use the remote. I notice that you mention different rooms, so please describe how you reset the remote for each room.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | You sure do have a lot of stuff in there. It might help if you were to give a brief summary of everything that you have set up, and how you use the remote. I notice that you mention different rooms, so please describe how you reset the remote for each room. |
Ok..... but be forewarned, you are going to scratch your head.... but my setup works for my situation (which is complicated -- both my situation and my setup
I actually use the remote in only 1 room -- the basement. But my basement is "Zone 2" on my main audio/video receiver, located in my family room. This is the Denon.
In my basement, I actually have 2 stereos, as follows:
(1) The Denon "zone 2" output from the family room goes into my Kenwood, which has 150 Watts per channel and is quite powerful, but the speaker jacks don't work (neither A nor B). So, I use the preamp outputs to flow the Kenwood signal to
(2) A technics much older Dolby Pro-Logic receiver. Since I only listen in 2 ch stereo in the basement, I'm not worried about the receiver being a bit old. On the Sony bookshelf speakers (also old) that i have hooked up down there, it sounds fine.
What is nice about this setup is that the Technics (but NOT the Kenwood) has a discrete ON/OFF. So, I have the Kenwood plugged into the switched AC outlet on the back of the Technics and I now have effectively both devices with discrete codes. (The Kenwood fortunately does have discrete source audio selects).
Another bit of background -- I have a Tivo (single tuner), located in my family room, that I use the MP3 player on (networked to my computer which stores all my music) to listen to music while working out in the basement. When my Tivo is in "music mode", I get no video signal except the black screen with the album/track info. When working out I like to actually watch video. So.... I use an old Mitsubishi VCR (in the family room) to output a different video signal than the Denon Zone2 Tivo output (which I use for the sound). This could be either a Comcast DTA, or a Comcast Digital Cable box/DVR, both of which are connected to the VCR, and both of which are located in the family room (which has the HD TV).
Other than that, in my basement I have another VCR (which actually works, and believe it or not my wife still uses it for old workout tapes, i know rediculous, but it is what it is. Old dogs, you know?). Plus an analog CRT TV which is now useless as its own tuner but when all my Family Room video sources are run into it, I can watch anything down there, including my Tivo and Comcast DVR located in the family room upstairs. I also have a Sony DVD player down there and a Zenith DivX player (which I only plan to use if the Sony DVD player malfunctions... which is has started down that path so its days are limited). The kids watch a lot of movies in my basement. Finally, I have a Sony minidisc player hooked up down there, and I have no intention of ever using this device, but I am a pack rat and it brings back such fond memories of yesteryear that I refuse to get rid of it. If I ever get nostalgic, I have an AUX+2S macro to setup that listening experience.
So... the remote has many devices to control at any point in time, based on what activity I am doing. My activities are setup as 1S and 2S macros (mainly) on a certain device key. The Tivo is the CBL key, so CBL+1S is normal Tivo watching mode. CBL+2S is for listening to MP3's thru the Tivo and retaining transport control of the Tivo, but watching video from the Comcast DTA located upstairs and thru that old Mitsubishi VCR located upstairs. CBL+3S is the same as CBL+2S, except instead of watching the DTA, it is for watching the Comcast DVR from upstairs. (My wife loves to record shows that we only get thru the digital cable box upstairs, and watch them while working out in the basement).
My TV key is mainly the control of the Comcast digital cable box/DVR. And my 1S and 2S macros are similarly setup.
CD key is for watching live TV via the comcast DTA. The macros set me up with the correct inputs, sound sources, etc.
DVD key is for watching DVD's... and since my TV does not have discrete codes I have to invoke a toggle to switch to the AV/AUX input on the TV. DVD+1S sets everything up for viewing DVD's, including the input toggle. And DVD+2S shuts it back down and resets the TV to CH3 (DVD exit mode).
The AUX mainly holds a combination of functions on the Denon (upstairs), Kenwood (downstairs), and Technics (downstairs). I only call these keys in Macros... no intention of ever hitting buttons directly in AUX mode. Although, sometimes the wife likes to listen to her IPod directly connected to the stereo (not thru Tivo), so I wrote a macro to set that up (AUX+1S).
VCR is all functions of the basement (functional) VCR. Some of the shifted keys hold functions from the upstairs Mitsubishi VCR, which is not a device that is operated, but again the Macros call various functions of this VCR (discrete ON/OFF, Line1, Line2, Ch3 (all discrete input selects), and menu+menu which I use as a discrete to get the "Tv/VCR" to be always on, since this is required to actually output L1 and L2 downstairs via coaxial).
So, bottom line, the intention is to use activity-based macros to watch different sources (sometimes mixed audio & video sources) depending on if we are working out, watching a movie, or watching regular TV. There are many devices (many located in the upstairs family room) that need to be called on for this purpose, and that is why all those different devices are effectively crammed into the remote. And, what video sources are "available" to be watched in the basement is necessarily dependent on what devices are in use in the family room... if kids are watching Comcast ON Demand upstairs (thru the Digital Cable box/dvr), then when working out my only other choice is Tivo (for music) + Comcast DTA (for video). In short, a lot of possible combinations and permutations! That is what made programming this remote so much fun though  (and a tad frustrating at times...)
Have I scared you away yet??   |
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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | It might help if you were to give a brief summary of everything that you have set up |
OOPS I must have overlooked the word "brief summary" and instead thought you wanted a detailed roadmap. Sorry about that. |
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Jerbo
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mdavej wrote: | | I mentioned multiplexing because it looked like you were trying to use one device mode for a couple of different unrelated devices, like 2 or 3 different VCR's. In a case like that, it would be better to mulitplex (change setup codes on the fly, like Vicky said). So pressing VCR would let you operate VCR1, shift-VCR would let you operate VCR2, etc. |
Wow. So if I am understanding this, I really missed the boat. Let's say I use 2 video sources, a Tivo and a Digital Cable Box/DVR. Each have their own device code. If I understand this concept correctly, I could do the following:
(1) Assign the CBL device button to the Tivo
(2) Assign the phantom AUX2 device to the DVR
(3) Write global macros as follows:
(a) CBL = O_CBL, M_CBL, etc etc
(b) SHIFT+CBL = O_AUX2, M_AUX2, etc etc
Is that what you mean by device multiplexing? So, you only have to hit the SHIFT key once (prior to hitting the CBL button). And until you press another function key (TV,AUX,DVD,etc), all your buttons work for the AUX2 DVR device as if it had its own physical device key?
If so, this is a breakthrough. I thought you physically had to hit the shift key every time you wanted to push a button in the shifted device... which is not what I want to do. |
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mdavej
Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4501
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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That's not what I mean, but I think what you proposed would work fine. In the extender world a shifted device key is the same as any other shifted key. It can run a macro just like any other key. After you run the macro to assign whatever key groups you want, whether it was initiated from a shifted key or not, all subsequent key presses work normally (unshifted).
I just tried it and am not sure if your extender has multiplexing since it's greyed out for me. But if it does, and you load the multiplex protocol, then you write "multiplex" macros on the Special Protocols tab to do it (it's a choice in the Type drop-down) . You essentially write a macro that changes the setup code for a particular device. Just pick a key and tell it what setup code to assign to what device. You'll need a second macro to go back to the original code.
Sometimes I get fancy and add a toggle to the mix with visual feedback. So press once for VCR1, press again for VCR2. I'll throw in a couple of bogus key presses and pauses so I get one blink for VCR1 and two blinks for VCR2.
I don't need multiplexing anymore, so it's been a while since I've done it, but that's the gist of it. |
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