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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
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Location: Florida
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 Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Vicky,
The upgrade you referred me to works for this AC. I thought I tried all the AC upgrades but I missed this one: KenmoreAC-580-72056200
The Guide-Energy Saver does nothing, but the Menu-Mode button will cycle through all the modes any way.
Power-Mode-Timer-Fan Speed-Temp up & Down all work great.
There is no Sleep or Air Purifier function in the upgrade however.
Thanks |
For years the only way I knew to find files was to do a manual search. I recently learned that there was a file search and that helps me find obscure files like this one.
Rob
I had downloaded the upgrade last night so you might have already fixed it, but there were 2 errors in the one I downloaded.
1) The fixed data 88 was missing.
2) The cmd buttons are 7 bytes long.
After making those changes the learned commands and the upgrade commands matched.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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jrh995
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 34
Location: SE PA
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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Tommy Tyler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 412
Location: Denver mountains
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob wrote: | | The fact that they all do something tends to imply that the remote has built-in intelligence and it knows what state the AC is currently in. So, even though from a user perspective, the TEMP-DOWN button should lower the temp by 1 degree, what it really does is send a signal to the AC telling it exactly what temp to set itself too. If you were to press it again, it would send a different signal with a different temp encoded. |
I'm trying to understand how this would work. I don't see how the remote can know what state the AC is currently in because the AC has no way to tell it. For example, suppose the AC is in state "70 degrees F" and the remote TEMP DOWN button is pressed twice, but the first time it is pointed away from the AC so the signal isn't received. Does the remote now think the AC is in state "69 degrees F" or "68 degrees F" ? And if it doesn't know, how can it tell the AC what temp to set itself to the next time the TEMP DOWN button is pressed?
Sure sounds more complicated than it needs to be. Why doesn't the TEMP DOWN button do just what it says, send a command for the AC to lower the temp 1 degree from whatever temp state the AC KNOWS it is currently in? |
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jrh995
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 34
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Tommy,
After playing with this as much as I have it looks like the remote sends all the information it has to the AC. In other words if the AC has been set at Cool-74-Medium Fan from the remote and I change it manually on the AC control panel to 70 degrees. If I then press the Fan Speed button on the remote that 'thinks' the AC is at 74 it will change the Fan Speed to High but also send the info that resets it to 74 degrees and probably sends the Cool Mode command too.
Does that make sense? The remote may be intelligent but it doesn't know everything.
John
Last edited by jrh995 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gfb107
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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Location: Cary, NC
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jrh995
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 34
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Greg,
Exactly, but it keeps track of everything.
I mentioned before that there is LCD Temp display on the remote which I first thought when I got the AC was the room temp, but it is the temp that was last sent to the AC. It also displays the current Fan Speed-Mode-Purifier State on the LCD.
John |
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't see how the remote can know what state the AC is currently in because the AC has no way to tell it. For example, suppose the AC is in state "70 degrees F" and the remote TEMP DOWN button is pressed twice, but the first time it is pointed away from the AC so the signal isn't received. Does the remote now think the AC is in state "69 degrees F" or "68 degrees F" ? And if it doesn't know, how can it tell the AC what temp to set itself to the next time the TEMP DOWN button is pressed? |
It knows the state of the AC, because it forces the state of the AC. So if you were not pointing at the ac when you pressed the button, it assumes that you just didn't aim correctly and will go down 2.
| Quote: | | Sure sounds more complicated than it needs to be. Why doesn't the TEMP DOWN button do just what it says, send a command for the AC to lower the temp 1 degree from whatever temp state the AC KNOWS it is currently in? |
Apparently the generic Kenmore code from the UEI database does just that.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Tommy Tyler wrote: | | I'm trying to understand how this would work. I don't see how the remote can know what state the AC is currently in because the AC has no way to tell it. For example, suppose the AC is in state "70 degrees F" and the remote TEMP DOWN button is pressed twice, but the first time it is pointed away from the AC so the signal isn't received. Does the remote now think the AC is in state "69 degrees F" or "68 degrees F" ? And if it doesn't know, how can it tell the AC what temp to set itself to the next time the TEMP DOWN button is pressed? |
The remote is in charge, so if the remote says that the current setting is 75 degrees and you press TEMP-DOWN, it will change the setting to 74 degrees. This would be true even if you had manually changed the setting to something else.
| Tommy Tyler wrote: | | Sure sounds more complicated than it needs to be. Why doesn't the TEMP DOWN button do just what it says, send a command for the AC to lower the temp 1 degree from whatever temp state the AC KNOWS it is currently in? |
My guess as to the reason is that the remote has an LCD screen that displays the current settings.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Tommy Tyler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 412
Location: Denver mountains
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Vicky wrote: | | It knows the state of the AC, because it forces the state of the AC. So if you were not pointing at the ac when you pressed the button, it assumes that you just didn't aim correctly and will go down 2. |
| Rob wrote: | | The remote is in charge, so if the remote says that the current setting is 75 degrees and you press TEMP-DOWN, it will change the setting to 74 degrees. |
Well if you guys say that's the way it works, I have to accept it. But how can they ever sell such an incredibly ill-conceived product. Have you guys really thought this through? Hows this scenario: You've come into the family room and it feels a little warm. So you turn on the AC and set the temperature at 70 degrees with the remote. You go off in quest of a cold beer, and while you're out of the room one of your kids playfully punches the TEMP DOWN button five times. You come back and settle down to watch the game on TV, but decide you'ld like the room a degree or two cooler. But you look down at the remote and are shocked to see it says the temperature is already 65 degrees! Is the AC broken, you wonder. It doesn't feel like 65 degrees, you mumble. What's going on?
The remote may be in charge, as you say, but it sure as heck has to "guess" at the room temperature it displays based on the hope that everything it transmits is received by the AC. In other words, you can never be sure the remote reads the correct temperature unless you know that what it says is what appeared in the display right after the last transmission to the AC. Die-hards who love this system will say all you have to do in the above scenario to establish (or confirm) parity between actual temp state and what the remote says is to punch it up and down a notch or two while making sure it is pointed at the AC. Lots of luck trying to explain that to a housewife in an owners manual? |
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jrh995
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 34
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Tommy,
There is a display on the AC unit itself that shows all the information as well. It is a very bright easy to read multicolor LED type display.
It shows Room Temp - Desired Temp - Fan Speed - Mode etc.
The remote shows the temp it last sent not the actual room temp. I do agree with you that it seems over complicated.
It's kind of a moot point with my remote as the LCD screen is fading away anyway. I asked my wife is she is having any trouble using the remote and she said "Why? I never look at the remote display because it's hard to see and I'm looking at the AC when I point the remote which is much easier to read."
Yes dear.
John |
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jrh995
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 34
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Rob,
I downloaded the newer version of the upgrade you made, but it still does nothing when I try it.
I am also having a heck of a time learning the codes from the upgrade that Vicky pointed me to. So far I got the Temp UP & Temp Down codes in one at a time. The codes all work from the other learning remotes.
I'll keep working at it.
| Quote: | | John, if you want any combinations other than the ones you've learned |
You pretty much got everything when you get it to work.
Is it possible to merge two upgrades to get a working upgrade with some commands from each?
Thanks,
John |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I downloaded the newer version of the upgrade you made, but it still does nothing when I try it. |
I down loaded that version and the learns and the upgrades look pretty close. The only thing I'm seeing is the frequency is about 350 higher in our upgrade.
Make sure that you only have one Audio 2000 in the device upgrades, and only 1 1FF protocol in the protocol area, and that Audio 2000 is assigned and make sure that the fixed data on the Audio 2000 key is the one with the fixed data of 88.
| Quote: | | I am also having a heck of a time learning the codes from the upgrade that Vicky pointed me to. |
Am I missing something, why do you need to learn them? But more to the point, I've read the hints that other people have given you for learning, and I'll add to that. Make sure you have fresh batteries in both remotes AND try learning in a darkened room. I have a heck of a time learning with the flourescent lights in my office. I can't get a decent learn if I'm too close to a sunny window, or I'm in flourescent lighting.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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jrh995
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 34
Location: SE PA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Vicky,
I am trying to relearn the upgrade codes from the file you pointed me to because as I am very new at this and I want to compare the actual info that ir.exe displays about the code. I am sure there is a way to see the code directly from the upgrade but I don't know how to do that. I don't expect you to tell me how it all comes together with all the experience that you Rob and all the other experts have. So I just thought I would start out small and work my way up.
I doubt that I will really get involved enough to dissect all this code and understand it but I am just curious enough to see what I can learn.
| Quote: | I down loaded that version and the learns and the upgrades look pretty close. The only thing I'm seeing is the frequency is about 350 higher in our upgrade.
Make sure that you only have one Audio 2000 in the device upgrades, and only 1 1FF protocol in the protocol area, and that Audio 2000 is assigned and make sure that the fixed data on the Audio 2000 key is the one with the fixed data of 88 |
I'm pretty sure I understood most of that and I checked everything before applying the upgrade again but it still did not work for me.
Thanks,
John |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I don't expect you to tell me how it all comes together with all the experience that you Rob and all the other experts have. So I just thought I would start out small and work my way up.
I doubt that I will really get involved enough to dissect all this code and understand it but I am just curious enough to see what I can learn. |
John, curiosity is a good thing. If you really are intersted, I'd recommend this reading list
Infrared 101, a review of hex
Infrared Protocol Primer
Protocol Builder Help
pulse width method
bi-phase RC5 format
Rob
What can I do to help here. These signals look very good. Do you want to see the IRsocpe shots?
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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