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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:51 am Post subject: |
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@davecs
You are not being a pain in the arse. It is interesting to me to find these quirks of various implementations. Linux seems far less standardized than Windows.
I have tried Nimbus now and get the same behaviour as you do. There is nothing I can do about the disappearing items when selected. RMIR does not set the foreground colour of selected items, so if it is set to White then it is the look-and-feel that is doing that. The same with the highlight colour in the progress bars. The orange is being set by the look-and-feel, just as in GTK+ your cyan and my deep purple highlight colour is set by the look-and-feel. The intended interpretation of progressbar.foregroundColor is that it sets the colour of the highlighting. Some look-and-feels, which appear to include both Nimbus and GTK+, make their own choice of highlight colour and use that value for the text. This is what you call "reversal" and I thought the notes within the setting dialog explained it. Despite the different interpretations by different look-and-feels, I understand that you have now found a combination of settings that works OK in all the look-and-feels, so I hope all is now well. _________________ Graham |
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WagonMaster
Joined: 16 Apr 2009 Posts: 361
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Graham, there's a minor typo in the "Set Progress Bar Text Colors" dialog's explanatory text, where an 'f' should be a 't' in the word "the". It's in 'RemoteMaster.java', on the 1st word of this line: Code: | + "fhe following one, which selects a text color used on both backgrounds<br/>" | I suspect that you also want a period at the end of that sentence. |
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davecs
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 328 Location: UK |
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:49 am Post subject: |
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mathdon wrote: | @davecs
You are not being a pain in the arse. It is interesting to me to find these quirks of various implementations. Linux seems far less standardized than Windows.
I have tried Nimbus now and get the same behaviour as you do. There is nothing I can do about the disappearing items when selected. RMIR does not set the foreground colour of selected items, so if it is set to White then it is the look-and-feel that is doing that. The same with the highlight colour in the progress bars. The orange is being set by the look-and-feel, just as in GTK+ your cyan and my deep purple highlight colour is set by the look-and-feel. The intended interpretation of progressbar.foregroundColor is that it sets the colour of the highlighting. Some look-and-feels, which appear to include both Nimbus and GTK+, make their own choice of highlight colour and use that value for the text. This is what you call "reversal" and I thought the notes within the setting dialog explained it. Despite the different interpretations by different look-and-feels, I understand that you have now found a combination of settings that works OK in all the look-and-feels, so I hope all is now well. |
I think that the point I was making about Nimbus was that the styles of three of the tabs were different to the styles of three other tabs. Is that in your control or would it mess stuff up elsewhere?
I think my ideal version would be GTK+ style but with Nimbus Open/Save dialogues!! The GTK dialogues are very strict and separate capital and small letters, whereas the Nimbus dialogues combine them. Though, I've got used to it by now! _________________ URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661 |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:11 am Post subject: |
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@davecs
I have traced the disappearing text in Nimbus to this look-and-feel supporting the setting of the foreground colour in table cells but not the background colour. You will see that in other look-and-feels, when a cell is selected the background becomes coloured and the foreground (text) colour becomes white. The background colour when selected is sometimes settable by Java and sometimes unchangeable and determined by the look-and-feel. In GTK+ for example, it is unchangeable and orange so the white text is a good contrast. In Nimbus the background colour when selected is white, no change from the unselected background, so the white foreground makes the text disappear.
I will fix this somehow and post v3.0.5.. I hope to do it without requiring another settable option, but if that is needed then so be it. I suspect, however, that in those look-and-feels that do not allow the background colour of table cells to be changed, the new traffic-light system of clash warnings will not work. I have not yet had time to test this, but will do so before I post v3.0.5.
@WagonMaster
Many thanks for pointing out the typos. I will fix them i v3.0.5. _________________ Graham |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I am on the track of sorting this, but not there yet. I have found a bug in RMIR which affects Nimbus but not GTK+, and it is that which is responsible for the background colour of selected items in certain tables with Nimbus being white. I hope to fix it so that Nimbus really does behave like the other look-and-feels. _________________ Graham |
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davecs
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 328 Location: UK |
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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mathdon wrote: | I am on the track of sorting this, but not there yet. I have found a bug in RMIR which affects Nimbus but not GTK+, and it is that which is responsible for the background colour of selected items in certain tables with Nimbus being white. I hope to fix it so that Nimbus really does behave like the other look-and-feels. |
That would be marvellous! _________________ URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661 |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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I have now replaced RMIR v3.0.4 in the RMIR Development folder with v3.0.5. This should fix the issues with the Nimbus look-and-feel. It should also improve the progress bar settings as I have added a new radio button, "Default", to each of the three settings in the option dialog. If you have used v3.0.4 then it is advisable to change your settings in this option to "Default" for each of the three settings, to see how you like the defaults. You may then change the settings again if you so wish. I have found the defaults to work well in all look-and-feels. _________________ Graham |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21254 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just FYI, Norton flagged jp12serial.dll as unsafe when I extracted the zip, so I had to go into Norton itself to restore it. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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davecs
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 328 Location: UK |
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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mathdon wrote: | I have now replaced RMIR v3.0.4 in the RMIR Development folder with v3.0.5. This should fix the issues with the Nimbus look-and-feel. It should also improve the progress bar settings as I have added a new radio button, "Default", to each of the three settings in the option dialog. If you have used v3.0.4 then it is advisable to change your settings in this option to "Default" for each of the three settings, to see how you like the defaults. You may then change the settings again if you so wish. I have found the defaults to work well in all look-and-feels. |
YES! Nimbus is now great. You've got the Key Moves, Macros and Special Functions tabs behaving the same way as the General and other tabs, with the same gentle highlighting. It looks really comfortable to use now, in some ways an improvement on GTK for Linux users. It reminds me of a dated style from the days of KDE3, called Keramik, which I would use in a flash as a system style if it was available. (If any fellow Linux nerd wants to tell me about the Trinity desktop, I know, but it's so flakey!). _________________ URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661 |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:58 am Post subject: |
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@davecs:
Many thanks for the report on Nimbus. How about the changes to the progress bar settings. Have you tried changing all settings to Default, and have you tried other look-and-feels? _________________ Graham |
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davecs
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 328 Location: UK |
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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mathdon wrote: | @davecs:
Many thanks for the report on Nimbus. How about the changes to the progress bar settings. Have you tried changing all settings to Default, and have you tried other look-and-feels? |
Yes. All are readable. In Metal and CDE/Motif, the defaults come out as two shades of light grey, but different enough to be read without too much difficulty. I found that if you set the bottom section to black, then all four styles are clear. Whatever happens with Nimbus happens with Gtk+ except the colour of the progress bar itself. The first is always orange, the second depends on your GTK style settings.
Apart from that, the general colours in the tabs are mostly OK, except in Metal, where in the shaded parts of Key Moves, highlighting a cell produces black on black. That's less of a problem than before with Nimbus because it's inside cells that you don't click on so much.
Just a question: what do people tend to use in Windows? _________________ URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661 |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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davecs wrote: | Apart from that, the general colours in the tabs are mostly OK, except in Metal, where in the shaded parts of Key Moves, highlighting a cell produces black on black. |
That will be fixed in the next build, but I have found other anomalies that I also want to fix before posting another build.
davecs wrote: | Just a question: what do people tend to use in Windows? |
There are two Windows-specific look-and-feels called simply Windows and Windows Classic. There are also Metal, Nimbus and CDE/Motif but the default is Windows and I suspect most users, including me, just leave it at that. _________________ Graham |
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davecs
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 328 Location: UK |
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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mathdon wrote: |
That will be fixed in the next build, but I have found other anomalies that I also want to fix before posting another build. |
Great!
mathdon wrote: |
There are two Windows-specific look-and-feels called simply Windows and Windows Classic. There are also Metal, Nimbus and CDE/Motif but the default is Windows and I suspect most users, including me, just leave it at that. |
Does anyone actually use CDE/Motif? It looks like an old Unix style from pre-history. Ugly as sin. Maybe there would be less to do if it wasn't there. Metal is OK for people who like that sort of thing, and Nimbus is nice now it's been fixed. But I don't see the point of CDE/Motif.
**Ducks and runs for cover as a whole load of CDE/Motif fans chase him off the site** _________________ URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661 |
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WagonMaster
Joined: 16 Apr 2009 Posts: 361
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:28 am Post subject: |
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davecs wrote: | Does anyone actually use CDE/Motif? | Not much anymore and not with RMIR, but extensively in the past.
davecs wrote: | It looks like an old Unix style from pre-history. Ugly as sin. | This is highly off-topic, but I cringe when I read people complaining about how "ugly" Motif is/was. It's like people complaining that the Emacs editor has bad hotkey assignments. If you don't like the defaults, CHANGE THEM! Motif had (IMHO) ugly default colors and other settings that turned off a lot of people from an otherwise-great GUI toolkit.
I'm not picking on you specifically, davecs. Motif-bashing is just something I don't hear much any more and you "pushed my button".
davecs wrote: | Maybe there would be less to do if it wasn't there. Metal is OK for people who like that sort of thing, and Nimbus is nice now it's been fixed. But I don't see the point of CDE/Motif. | Frankly, I didn't mention it earlier, but I don't see much point in the Java Swing toolkit implementing "Look & Feel" when, AFAICT, it's not done that well. For example, as I mentioned earlier, Gtk version 3 is now "styled" with CSS rules and from what little experimenting I did with RMIR's Java "Look & Feel" in "GTK+" mode, it seems to "collide" with Gtk3 CSS settings in odd ways. But since I use "Metal" (the default in RMIR under Linux, IIUC), I don't really care how well or poorly Swing implements "Look & Feel" for other cases.
davecs wrote: | **Ducks and runs for cover as a whole load of CDE/Motif fans chase him off the site** | Keep running!
Getting back on-topic... One thing I recently discovered (by pure accident, searching for something totally unrelated, in fact!) was this: Code: | export _JAVA_OPTIONS='-Dawt.useSystemAAFontSettings=on -Dswing.aatext=true' |
Adding that in an appropriate place (I do it in my Bash shell initialization) makes the fonts/text in RMIR look way better under Linux. You wanna talk "ugly", let's talk about the text in Java without that option! |
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mathdon Expert
Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 4524 Location: Cambridge, UK |
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I have now replaced RMIR v3.0.5 in the RMIR Development folder with v3.0.6. The Set Progress Bars dialog is now properly centred in the RMIR frame. Table colours have been revised to increase readability, as far as possible, in all look-and-feels. There are still some situations in which there is poor contrast between background and foreground colours, but Java does not give complete flexibility in colour settings so this is not always possible.
This build also prevents the RMIR frame from re-sizing on a change of look-and-feel. Some changes caused re-sizing to full-screen height and/or width that made manual re-sizing difficult or even impossible. _________________ Graham |
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