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HamburgerHelper1
Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 574
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 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:32 am Post subject: Soundbar doesn't recognize volume signals from URC-3660 |
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Rob in this thread
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101937&highlight=
vickyg2003 Talks about customizing the protocol for devices that conflict with each other.
Could this approach work to make the LG soundbar work?
Randy |
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jmezz13
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | The LG remote uses NECx1 with device and sub-device codes 44.
The Vizio TV remote uses NEC1 with device code 4.
The only real difference that I can see between the learns that work and the ones that don't is a slight difference in the carrier frequency. The working ones use 38.2 kHz, and the non-working ones use 38.4 and 38.8 kHz. Normally that shouldn't make a difference but maybe in this case it does. (Just FYI, the LG learns have a frequency of 37.7 kHz)
So what is the goal here? If you just want to get the soundbar working, use the LG learns to create an upgrade. The signals only decode for me if you switch the decoder to DecodeIR (Options > Set IR Decoder), probably because it's more lenient with the carrier frequency.
If you want to get it working using the TV upgrade, I may need to make a hacked version of the NEC executor that uses a lower frequency. Actually, I would be interested if the soundbar responds to an upgrade using the built in NEC executor, with the frequency difference. |
I already have a working remote using the LG learned codes on the Audio device and using volume punchthru to the Audio device. I was able to build an LG upgrade using the learned codes decoded by DecodeIR (NECx1).
At this point, it's more academic interest why the 3660 using "standard" Vizio TV upgrade isn't recognized by the LG. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence - are you suggesting there is a way to use the builtin NEC executor on the 3660 but change the frequency in some way?
Jay |
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Soundbar doesn't recognize volume signals from URC-3660 |
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That thread is covering the case where 2 devices accidentally respond to each others remotes, which is a different scenario.
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Rob
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jmezz13 wrote: | | I already have a working remote using the LG learned codes on the Audio device and using volume punchthru to the Audio device. I was able to build an LG upgrade using the learned codes decoded by DecodeIR (NECx1). |
Is the working remote using actual learned signals, or is it using an upgrade that you generated from the learned signals. Sorry, I couldn't quite determine it from your message.
| jmezz13 wrote: | At this point, it's more academic interest why the 3660 using "standard" Vizio TV upgrade isn't recognized by the LG. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence - are you suggesting there is a way to use the builtin NEC executor on the 3660 but change the frequency in some way?
Jay |
I can't change the built in executor itself, but I can generate a new one and alter the frequency, but it doesn't like that level of effort is warranted if it's just academic now.
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Rob
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Barf
Expert
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 1415
Location: Munich, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | The only real difference that I can see between the learns that work and the ones that don't is a slight difference in the carrier frequency. The working ones use 38.2 kHz, and the non-working ones use 38.4 and 38.8 kHz. Normally that shouldn't make a difference but maybe in this case it does. (Just FYI, the LG learns have a frequency of 37.7 kHz)
So what is the goal here? If you just want to get the soundbar working, use the LG learns to create an upgrade. The signals only decode for me if you switch the decoder to DecodeIR (Options > Set IR Decoder), probably because it's more lenient with the carrier frequency. |
"Lenient" frequency in IrpTransmogrifier: Default is 2kHz tolerance, so nominallly 38.4kHz means that everything between 36.4 and 40.4 are accepted.
To distinguish between, say, 38.8 kHz and 37.7 kHz requires a very steep (high order) filter, this can be ruled out.
However, looking closer at the "LG sound bar remote vol + (works)" (which DecodeIR calls NECx1) shows that it is not quite NECx1: the repeat reads (IRP) 8,-8,D:1,1,^108, where D:1 is an encoded zero (Pronto: 0015 0015), while the learned code contains an encoded one (Pronto: 0015 0041). So it is not really NECx1, despite DecodeIR saying so. (IrpTransmogrifier's no decode is the correct answer.) It is quite plausible that the soundbar does not like what we call NECx1 -- for whatever reason -- and rejects it.
Writing an executor for the protocol: {38.4k,564}<1,-1|1,-3>(8,-8,D:8,S:8,F:8,~F:8,1,^108m,(8,-8,0:1,1,^108m)*) [D:0..255,S:0..255=255-D,F:0..255] ?? |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, so let's wait to see if Jay confirms that the LG works with the NECx1 upgrade that he created.
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Rob
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jmezz13
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Is the working remote using actual learned signals, or is it using an upgrade that you generated from the learned signals. Sorry, I couldn't quite determine it from your message.
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Yeah, I wasn't clear. I have tested both and both the learned signal from the LG remote and the upgrade created with protocol NECx1 both successfully control the LG Soundbar.
However, it is the Vizio volume IR signals (only from the 3660) that are not working with the LG Soundbar. The LG Soundbar has a feature where it will respond to other remote controls and it responds to every other remote I have that can output Vizio (NEC1) volume signals. I presume that the IR receiver on the LG must be different than that of a dedicated single-protocol receiver that exists on most devices. Maybe the logic employed in the multi-protocol receiver accepts a much tighter band of signal tolerance? For whatever reason, the LG Soundbar does not like the NEC1 volume signals from the 3660. I have another 3660 on order to use in another room and will see if the same thing happens just to rule out a single device issue.
| The Robman wrote: | | I can't change the built in executor itself, but I can generate a new one and alter the frequency, but it doesn't like that level of effort is warranted if it's just academic now. |
Got it. Agreed. |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I get what you're trying to do with the Vizio signals, I just wanted to know if the LG responded to the NECx1 upgrade to satisfy Barf's questions.
I have run out of ideas as to why the LG responds to some versions of the Vizio signal and not others.
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Rob
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jmezz13
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Rob, Randy and Barf for thinking about this. Just one of those curiosities I guess. I'll report back if I find something different about my second 3660 when it comes in. |
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jmezz13
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Just an update:
I received a second ONN URC-3660 today and tried just a standard Vizio setup using a vizio upgrade, and it successfully controlled the LG Soundbar. I learned the signal from this remote and the frequency was slightly lower than the first 3660 that was causing trouble.
Summary
Vizio Remote - 38095 (works)
3660 (1st Remote) w learned vizio volume - 38835 (doesn't work)
3660 (1st Remote) w Vizio upgrade - 38462 (doesn't work)
3660 (2nd Remote) w Vizio upgrade- 38278 (works)
I also tried to Mfg Reset the first 3660 and then retry, but no change. Maybe the first remote just slightly deviates from the expected frequency due to tolerance buildup on the electronics(?) and the LG Soundbar is picky. In any case, it doesn't look like an issue for all 3660 remotes.
Jay |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Can you try one more experiment for me? Take the two 3660 remotes, with the Vizio upgrade loaded, and first re-confirm that the 2nd one works and the 1st one doesn't, then swap the batteries and see if you get the same results, or does the "goodness" follow the batteries.
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Rob
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jmezz13
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | Can you try one more experiment for me? Take the two 3660 remotes, with the Vizio upgrade loaded, and first re-confirm that the 2nd one works and the 1st one doesn't, then swap the batteries and see if you get the same results, or does the "goodness" follow the batteries. |
Believe it or not, I thought about the same thing and tried the batteries from the 2nd remote into the first. No go unfortunately. |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Then best I can assume is that there's some slight hardware difference, like a capacitor or resistor that isn't quite up to spec that is causing the very slight difference. It's the kind of thing that most testing would not reveal, you just seem to have a very fussy soundbar.
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Rob
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HamburgerHelper1
Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 574
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:39 am Post subject: Soundbar doesn't recognize volume signals from URC-3660 |
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| Quote: | | Then best I can assume is that there's some slight hardware difference, like a capacitor or resistor that isn't quite up to spec |
My bet is on the crystal. I have replaced the crystal on several remotes in the past
I even had a sherwood receiver that no longer responded to the remote and I had no idea why. The manufacturer sent me a crystal for the remote and sure enough that fixed it
I would also expect other learns to show Frequency Difference with other remotes
but maybe not always |
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jmezz13
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Soundbar doesn't recognize volume signals from URC-3660 |
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| HamburgerHelper1 wrote: | | I would also expect other learns to show Frequency Difference with other remotes but maybe not always |
Well, that sounds like a request for more testing 
At the risk of fully beating a dead horse, I tested the suspect 3660 against two more remotes - a Panasonic DVD player, and the LG Soundbar. Here are the results
DVD Player Remote - 36697 Hz
3660 DVD Player upgrade - 37037
LG Soundbar Remote - 37915
3660 LG Soundbar upgrade - 38462
So, the higher frequency output doesn't seem to be specific to the NEC1 protocol like you suggested. Interestingly, the LG Soundbar itself isn't as finicky with the frequency of its own remote vs the Vizio protocol. |
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