JP1 Remotes

Guinness · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Location: Arlington, VA

I am attempting to build a Sunfire protocol, but I am very new to all of this. I have read most of the JP1 documents, and I think I understand most of it. However, I don't see how you came up with "3 device bits" from looking at the Sunfire Pronto document).

I see that there are 12 "data bits", but there is no distinction made between device and command bits. Also, your 3 device plus 8 command bits only makes 11 bits... what about that 12th bit?

This is my maiden voyage into JP1, so I may have more questions as I go--but I am a “hacker” by nature and an engineer by profession, so hopefully my questions won't be too intolerable...

Thanks,
David

--- In jp1@yahoogroups.com, "johnsfine" <johnfine@a...> wrote:
>
> I looked at their PDF (it was easier than asking questions).
>
> It's very clearly documented and simple, but I've never seen that
> protocol before. I think they invented it. So I really doubt that
> you'd find it as an existing UEI protocol.
>
> It's very easy to recreate in the PB spreadsheet:
>
> 38Khz
> Lead In = 9000 -4500
> Zero = 560 -560
> One = 1680 -560
> LeadOut = -18540
>
> 3 device bits
> 8 command bits
>
> Overall structure is dev cmd !dev !cmd
>
> Once it's defined in PB, you need to put in either in KM or in
> protocols.ini for RM. It needs "msb" format for the 8-bit commands,
> and the 3 bit device is always 0.
>
> --- In jp1@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Sabo" <sabogj@y...> wrote:
>
> > I have a sunfire theater grand receiver and sunfire lists all of
> > their codes for the Pronto remote on their website. How, if possible
> > would I translate this code to work with my 8811 remote....or how
> > can I get this code into either remote master or keymaster?
_________________
"The only people who inherit anything by right of birth are congenital idiots" -- Asimov

johnsfine

johnsfine · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject:

I just consulted another source (the decode by my DecodeIr.DLL program of a sunfire ccf). The 11 is just wrong.

It should have been 4 device bits and 8 command bits.

They really have 12 bits of data and 12 (not 11) bits of !data, but they didn't know how to document the fact that the last !data bit is merged with the Leadout, so Lead_in plus 12 data plus 12 !data plus lead out is 25 bursts, not the 26 you might expect.

In PB it is quite simple to specify that lead out merges with the last bit. In fact it is the default (lead out style 0).

jon_armstrong · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:43 pm Post subject:

John,

I just decoded the document and it looks like:

{38K,562, MSB}<1,-1|3,-1>(8,-4,D:6,F:6,~D:6,~F:6,-33)+

those match their decimal description.
_________________
-Jon

Guinness · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Location: Arlington, VA

Yeah, I figured out the part about merging the last with the lead out to get 12 bits of !data+lead-out. I haven't gotten far enough in my understanding yet to make much sense out of jon_armstrong's decoding, but I'll work on it after I get home (from my *real* job) today and hopefully figure it out.

Thanks for the help!
David
_________________
"The only people who inherit anything by right of birth are congenital idiots" -- Asimov

jon_armstrong · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject:

David,

I am suggesting that it is four 6-bit bytes:
Device, Function, Device complement, function complement.

The notation was created by John Fine and it means:

{38K,562, MSB} IR carrier frequency=38KHz, Time base(TB)=562 uSec, bits are MSB first

<1,-1|3,-1> Zero|One definition in units of TB

(8,-4, Lead in in units of TB

D:6,F:6,~D:6,~F:6, Order of data bits

-33)+ final lead out or gap in units of TB and the + means the entire expression between parenthesis repeats as long as the button is held.

Also the numerals in the word document will be OBC's but since KM Master doesn't understand this protocol you need to multiply OBC's by four since UEIC remotes always assume the bottom bits are on the left.
_________________
-Jon

johnsfine · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject:

johnsfine · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:20 pm Post subject:

Oops. I didn't actually try the above link before since I had already downloaded the PDF file. But that link doesn't go to that PDF file. It goes to a .doc file whose list of commands ends at 3E hex. So that is what Jon saw that I didn't.

jon_armstrong · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject:

OK, I just found the pdf http://www.sunfire.com/support.htm and John is correct since the commands go at least to decimal 148 so it is indeed:

{38K,562, MSB}<1,-1|3,-1>(16,-8,D:4,F:8,~D:4,~F:8,-33)+

And David, this simplifies the OBC entry. You no longer should multiply by four.

BTW, John, IRTools doesn't seem to decode this protocol even with DecodeIR.dll v 2.11
_________________
-Jon

Guinness · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Location: Arlington, VA

I haven't had any luck so far with building this protocol. I am confused about how to represent the ~D:4,~F:8 portion. I have tried to use the XOR and XOR-Comp for check bytes, but this function isn't documented very well and my boolean logic is rusty... I don't see how XOR would invert a signal, and I just don't even know what "XOR-Comp" means (exclusive NOR?). Am I totally on the wrong track here? I'll paste my protocol failure here for you to laugh at: <grin>

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 23 (S3C8)
3D 92 48 8B 12 DF 09 08 08 03 48 01 04 01 18 01
04 24 36 11 94 08 B6 8D 01 46
End

Thanks again,
David
_________________
"The only people who inherit anything by right of birth are congenital idiots" -- Asimov

jon_armstrong · Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject:

It's in "Signal Structure" pull down box for "dev-cmd-!dev-!cmd".

You were on the right track, but If you have a structure like dev-cmd-cmd! you do use the XOR-Comp feature and pick only one previous byte and it XOR's with FF.
_________________
-Jon

Guinness · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Location: Arlington, VA

I've had that signal structure selected from the start, so I guess that's not the problem. I have no bit doubling, no repeat value, no check byte, lead-in on first frame only, lead-out style 0 "off as total", no alt lead-out, and no toggle bit. I have switched all of these settings with no success... is there anything I can show you that might give you a clue as to what my problem is? Here is the code from a learned signal (VOL-) on my RCU810:
+8972 -4484 +584 -554 +584 -554 +584 -554 +584 -554 +584 -554 +584 -554 +584 -554 +584 -554 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +584 -554 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +1704 -548 +584 -554 +584 -554 +1704 -548 +584 -18082

It looks just like the hex code from the Sunfire Pronto document, but maybe it has a clue somewhere...
_________________
"The only people who inherit anything by right of birth are congenital idiots" -- Asimov

jon_armstrong · Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:45 pm Post subject:

I just posted a file in the JP1 Yahoo group files|devices|TV|Sunfire.zip that has both the device and protocol upgrades. I did see one mistake that I made in the definition:

{38K,562, MSB}<1,-1|3,-1>(16,-8,D:4,F:8,~D:4,~F:8,-33)+

I originally had the lead in as (8,-4, ... ) and I corrected that. You would use the same lead-in for every frame.

At any rate, I tested OBC 13 and it decodes correctly.

+8950 -4546 +550 -572 +550 -572 +550 -572 +550 -572 +550 -572 +550 -572 +550 -572 +550 -572 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +550 -572 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +1680 -566 +550 -572 +550 -572 +1680 -566 +550 -19134

You can load my protocol file text image (Sunfire-PB.txt) into PB with the load command and compare mine to yours and more importantly test the device upgrade and see if it works. I didn't assign many buttons in the buttons tab since you can chose those and put the commands where you want them. The protocol has already been entered in the KM Master device upgrade so the PB text file is just FYI.
_________________
-Jon

Guinness · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 5 Location: Arlington, VA

I misunderstood the device and command bytes sections. I also had the lead-in style wrong. Your protocol and upgrade work perfectly. I assigned most of the buttons, and now I'm playing around with macros and such. Thanks so much for your help!

One note, though: Sunfire is Bob Carver's new company, and they don't make TVs. This protocol is for their latest pre-amps and receivers.

David
_________________
"The only people who inherit anything by right of birth are congenital idiots" -- Asimov

jon_armstrong · Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject:

David,

I moved the file over to the Audio section and changed the names. I don't know where I got TV??

Glad it worked for you.
_________________
-Jon