JP1 Remotes

rrsavage · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 6

Ok. this question come from way---way---way out in left field.

<Background Info>

I currently own a ReplayTV 4000 series PVR which came with a remote control that does not have the JP1 jumper on it. Ok, I am not using the remote to directly control the ReplayTV, I have the PVR hidden in an AV rack and am using an IRMan device (www.evation.com - converts IR signals and outputs 6 byte serial data to a COM port.) When I hit a key on the remote the IRMan interprets the signal and gives me a six byte unique string for each button on the remote. I use this serialized data with other IR emmiting hardware to rebroadcast an IR signal directly to the ReplayTV unit in the AV rack.

<Question>

I recently purchased 3 new ReplayTV 5000 series remote controls (I really like the ReplayTV remote layout). I wanted to use these remotes in other rooms to transmit their IR signals to other IRman devices in the house. (distributed A/V system). Unfortunately, these new IR remotes do not transmit the exact same IR signals, and to make things worse, the IRMan for some reason does not interpret the IR signal correctly and does not result in unique serialized strings. Without this my system cannot decypher what functions to releay to the ReplayTV PVR. So.... after discovering that these new ReplayTV remotes have the JP1 interface, I thought of two possible solutions-- (1) First, perhaps I could find a ReplayTV IR library that I could load via the JP1 interface that matches the ReplayTV 4000 Remote. This would be ideal. (2) Alternatively, since I have a controlling system that converts the serialized data strings from the IRman, it really doesn't matter what actual data I am getting as long as each function is unique. If I can get these unique strings, I can do a lookup table to see what actual IR signal to emit to the ReplayTV PVR.

Does anyone have any pointers or suggestions that could help steer me to achieve this goal ? In the IR.EXE software, can I somehow manually specify the IR signal data for each button ? Is there a ReplayTV 4000 IR file that I could simply load into the ReplayTV 5000 remote control ? is it possible to re-define the ReplayTV device via the JP1 interface on a replayTV 5000 remote ?

Thanks for any help,
RSavage

sfhub · Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 287

Not sure what the issue is. AFAIK there are protocols for Replay are
Replay(simple), Replay(advanced), and Panasonic. Panasonic and Replay
are quite different while Replay(advanced) is derived from Replay(simple)

When I've learned Replay IR signals I've never found them to be not
unique and they always get decoded properly by IR, so I'm unsure what
the problem with IRMan is.

AFAIK there is no difference between the 4k remote and 5k remote
signals, though some buttons are missing in the 5k remote that were
present in 4k remote. Both units will respond to Replay and Panasonic
protocols, but I've found on Replay protocol can properly specify unique
unit IDs so the same remote can uniquely control each of multiple units.

The files you want to look at are here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/3.%20Device%20Codes/PVR/ReplayTV-5000.txt
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/3.%20Device%20Codes/PVR/ReplayTV.zip
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Extenders/ReplayTV%205000/r5kex1_2.zip

You can get better responses if you post in the jp1 forum
at hifi-remote.com/forums

rrsavage · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 6

Thanks for your reply. I used another piece of hardware to sample IR pulses from each of the remotes. I first sampled the ReplayTV 4000 remote's "SELECT" button. Each time I sampled it, it always displayed the same waveform. Next, I sampled the ReplayTV 5000 remote control. It's waveform was significantly different than the 4000's. I am by no means a hardware engineer, and I really dont understand why the IRMan doesn't properly interpret the IR pulses ftom the 5000 remote. I know that it is most likely a bug or deficiency in the IRMan, but I am seeking a workaround, since I already have several of these units.

Another interesting piece of info is on both the 4000 and the 5000 remotes, I have configured them for a Toshiba TV. When I send say, a "Volume UP" IR pulse from either remote to the IRMan, they do produce identical serialized strings. So I know that the 5000 remote is capable of transmitting something that the IRMan can interpret; however, the ReplayTV signals cannot.

I may re-post this conversation in the forum you mentioned if it does not get many hits here.

Thanks, RSavage.

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:59 am Post subject:

I think this is the best forum. Hopefully Rob will notice this thread soon and give you the answer.

I'm not sure which is the default protocol for a Replay 4000 remote nor which is the default for a Replay 5000 remote, nor why IRMan has trouble with one of them. I'm sure with JP1 you can make the 5000 remote duplicate the signals of the 4000 remote.

usblipitor · Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 516 Location: Greenbelt, MD

I wonder if your series 4000 remote is sending out signals that would correspond to "replay unit 1" while your new series 5000 remotes are sending out signals that correspond to "replay unit 0" .. I cannot recall the specifics of how to change the remote between unit 0 and unit 1 signals but I will do a search and see what I can find. Meanwhile, I believe Rob will know the answer off the top of his head.

I have held those ReplayTV 5000 units in my hand and at the time I remember how much I liked them. Since that time I have been searching for a remote that was not too large, but still had all the replay buttons, and was comfortable in my hand, and was fully JP1 compatible, and if possible had alot of extra buttons so I could use the hidden buttons that are not present on the ReplayTV remotes (like 1/3/9 min skip ahead/back, discrete on, discrete off, etc)

For me, the OFA 6131m fit all my requirements. I am quite happy with it. And they can be obtained, fully JP1-enabled for $5 less than the ReplayTV 5000 remotes, from none other than Rob. (to JP1 enable them Rob solders in an EEPROM and the 6-pin JP1 connector before he ships them to you) .. check the market section of this website for this post.

This is a picture of the OFA-6131. I counted that it has 17 more buttons than the replaytv5000 remote (55 vs. 38. )
_________________
-Steve
Beginner's Guide
CodeSearchFAQ
JP1Files

usblipitor · Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 516 Location: Greenbelt, MD

This thread talks about how to change a remote from unit 0 to any unit number up to 15. To do it this way may require a JP1 cable as it involves changing a number from 0 thru 15 in a device upgrade .txt file and then uploading this file into your remote (by which I mean the usual JP1 procedure of loading the device upgrade into KM, then copy/pasting to IR, then upload to remote.)
_________________
-Steve
Beginner's Guide
CodeSearchFAQ
JP1Files

jon_armstrong · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:04 pm Post subject:

Why don't you post the six bytes of serial data for the select command from both remotes? Since we know what the select command should be we could probably figure out the coding scheme and give a more intelligent answer. Sometimes the hex bytes that represent the IR commands look very different, but in reality may not be that far off. Pronto hex is a good example where people think that strings with burst pairs like 000F 0040 are radically different from 0010 003F.

While I don't think it is the issue here, and don't recall for sure whether the ReplayTV unit even cares, the Replay IR protocol has a toggle bit. In this case a doublewide bit that alternates each time you push a button. This would cause problems for the same learned commands being transmitted in succession. The numerals 1-1-1 would only be seen as a 1. Numerals 1-0-1 would work OK.

It sounds like you are using the IRMan (or should I say IRMen) as an IR targets throughout your house, having some piece of software like Girder recognize those signals running on the PC and then using an IR Emitter to send out a signal to the units themselves.

FWIW, I have helped others in some unrelated forums with PC based home automation systems that are capable of recognizing and re-transmitting IR. While some people make that concept work, I personally migrated to using OFA remotes to do all the IR and a wired IR distribution system to send the commands to the equipment that I have hidden in equipment closets. Despite their apparent simplicity and low cost, most OFA remotes are capable of sending just about any IR command. They do “understand” toggle bits.

The reason I did it was the latency in the PC based process. In my case the reliability and speed were dramatically improved. With the tools here, you can execute complex macros very quickly. AFAIK, the RS 2117 is still on sale for ~$30. These are RF capable (they transmit the same command that modulates RF and IR simultaneously and have an RF base station that converts RF to IR) and you might consider using those to control all the Replays and you can address them individually. You could still control whatever other processes are going on in the PC with the IRMan.

Certainly as John Fine has suggested you are in the right place to solve this problem and Rob is a leading authority on Replays and their Remotes.
_________________
-Jon

rrsavage · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 6

Thanks for all your posts.

Here are a few examples of the serialized data streams outputted by the IRMan:

ReplatTV 4000 Remote
- SELECT BUTTON : " 40h,04h,00h,29h,24h,0Dh "
- '9' BUTTON : " 40h,04h,00h,29h,18h,31h "
- UP BUTTON : " 40h,04h,00h,29h,A4h,8Dh"
- DOWN BUTTON : " 40h,04h,00h,29h,64h,4Dh "

ReplatTV 5000 Remote
- SELECT BUTTON : " 64h,18h,00h,00h,00h,00h "
- '9' BUTTON : " 64h,18h,00h,00h,00h,00h "
- UP BUTTON : " 64h,08h,00h,00h,00h,00h "
- DOWN BUTTON : " 64h,08h,00h,00h,00h,00h "

FYI, the reason I am not using an hardwired IR system or an IR redistribution system is...

Well, I have to paint a clearer picture of my system as a whole. I have multiple a/v sources (ReplayTV, DSS1, DVD, VCR, etc) and 4 different rooms in my house that I want to distribute the audio and video from any of these sources at any time. Additionally, I only want a single remote in each room to control the selected source device. I really like the ReplayTV remote and do not want a universal remote where I have to select what device I want to control. On pressing the replayTV "Zones" button, I intercept this command and using an A/V matrix switcher, I select a PC as my source. From this PC, using the ReplayTV remote, you can select from a list of sources. After selecting an on-screen source, the a/v switcher will route that source to your destination. Since now the computer is aware of your source, I intercept all remote control commands and determine which source device to send the appropriate IR signal to. So with the single ReplayTV remote, I can control any of my source devices and since the computer knows my selected source and it can remap incomming remote control signals to the correct source output IR signals. A little complicated to explain, but the system works great. That is with the exception of the new ReplayTV remotes not decoding properly in the IRMan....

Thanks, RSavage

The Robman · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:05 pm Post subject:

The answer is simple. The R4k remotes use the Panasonic protocol whereas the R5k remotes use the Replay (aka RC6a) protocol.

All you need to do is download the ReplayTV-pan.txt file that's included in the ReplayTV.zip file, load it up into KM, change the remote to the R5k and fix up the button assignments. Then load this code back into the R5k remote and you should be all set.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

johnsfine · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:43 pm Post subject:

sfhub · Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 287

rrsavage · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 6

Thanks to everyone for your help. Using Rob's wisdom, I have programmed my 3 - ReplayTV 5000 remote controls with the Panasonic protocol, re-mapped a few buttons, and downloaded. All is working perfectly now Very Happy

This has been a tremendous success story. I just received the ReplayTV 5000 remotes in the mail yesterday, found out that they did not decode with IRMan, found the JP1 jumper in the new remotes, found this forum and the tools, made my simple parallel interface cable (with ony one trip to Radio Shack) , and successfully downloaded to the new remotes. I am now fully up and working just as I wanted !!

Thanks again....

RSavage - (SavageReplay on PlanetReplay's forum)

The Robman · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:35 pm Post subject:

Wow, that was quick. I posted the answer at 1:05pm and you posted that all is working at 2:19pm. Not too shabby, especially for a beginner! You should stick around to see what else you can do with your remotes. Did you know that you can convert those R5k remotes into 12 device universals by installing the extender?
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

rrsavage · Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 6

The stuff is very cool. I am a huge tinker-er, and I like little projects like this. My next project is to monitor the temperature in each room and control electric AV/heater dampers to balance the temperature thoughout the house. Perhaps I should learn how to do the extensions to the ReplayTV remote to add macro or shift features to control the dampers with any remote from any room 8)

Thanks again....
RSavage

jon_armstrong · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:37 pm Post subject: