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will x10 rf repeater work for my one-for-all RF remote?

 
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: will x10 rf repeater work for my one-for-all RF remote? Reply with quote

I have the urc-9910 remote by one for all that transmits by RF to a one-for-all base. I want to increase the range of this transmission... I do not have any x10 components, but the only device that might accomplish this goal seems to be an x10 repeater like the SR731 in the following link.
http://www.smarthome.com/4015.html

Does anyone know if this would extend the range of my remote? Thanks!
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makrakis



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
Location: leonardtown, MD

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: 9910 and range etension Reply with quote

I am in the exact same boat as you are and here is what I know we need to find out. What is the frequency of the 9910? I believe it is 433 MHZ +/-. Terk and powermid operate at 418 MHZ. "Myextender" supposively opoerates at 433mhz. I hooked up my RF-LINK WAVECOM SR which I believe is 433MHZ and it bomed the the 9910's signal everywhere and the three URC9910 commnad centers recieved them beautifully and controlled 3 different M/N Direct TV recievers. You only need the IR tranmitter or some call it reciever depending on the manufacturer. The 9910 command center will recieve the signal but it must be the same RF carrier. I have an e-mail into ONEFORALL to verify their carrier frequency for the RF link. I will follow up when I find something out. Greg
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply.

I was looking at the SR731 because it is somewhat cheap, and does exactly what I want and nothing more. There are several "IR extenders" out there, but I really don't want one of these because it would mean (1)pointing the remote at the IR receiving base (eliminating the usefulness of the remote's on RF transmission) and (2)the effective range of the remote would then be only as good as the IR extender.
An RF extender, of course, would give further distance to transmit from the remote to the extender by RF, then from the extender to the remote's original RF receiving-->IR base, then to the target (my stereo).

I think the item you refer to, the RF link wavecom extender, is 433mhz, and I say this based on a quick google search to the following link: www.admin.ch

If the RF link wavecom extender works for the urc-9910, then presumably it is 433mhz, but I can't prove this with any info from online sites (nor the 9910 manual).

So, what's the cheapest RF relay device that will repeat 433 mhz?
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the FCC page on the URC-9910, it's RF freq is 430mHz.
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makrakis



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
Location: leonardtown, MD

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked with the folks at X10 and they told me that the box is for 310 MHZ vice 418MHZ or 430MHZ where the repeaters that we need operate.... Have you found any other purely RF repeaters out there. I would like to have one my self. In the mean time the IR based RF-LINK WAVECOM SR product works since they are close enough at 433MHZ and the cheaper My EXtender may work, I hope to get an e-mail back tomorrow. Greg
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have a link to a place that sells a product that would work at 433mhz, this SR9231 device. Only complaint from me is that it's $91. Seems to be a european thing, most of the websites do not list prices in dollars: www.atg.com.hk.

The IR to RF repeaters could work, but what I really would like is a longer RF range total, not one made longer by the addition of a leg of IR signal. I want to control my stereo from my deck, and I would have nowhere to point the remote to hit an IR target. The 9910 remotes are relatively cheap, I suppose that I could plant a base of the remote somewhere in my house near the deck (but still too far away from the stereo) and then use the 9910 base to hit the IR to RF repeater, then back to another 9910 base, then to the stereo. Sounds kinda tenuous, though, and I do wish I could just do it all by RF to RF to amplification.

Let me know what you think the cheapest IR/RF repeater at 433 is, and if the sum total of that and a new 9910 remote is less than $91 (above) then that would be the better deal.

I can't believe nobody else has figured this out yet...
Thanks for your input.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18077
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at this post. The user here has hooked up a 9v battery into his remote and he says that it has greatly improved the RF range. Now, I'm not endorsing this change as I have no idea what damage running 9v through the remote's circuitry might do, so use this mod at your own risk.
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: 9910 and range etension Reply with quote

makrakis,
Please tell me more about your rf-link wavecom SR... The more I look for these online, it seems that they transmit at 2.4ghz, which doesn't make sense for what you describe. What is the exact model number, and do you have any items like the RX999 transmitter or TX888 receiver as part of this?
Also, am I correct in understanding that your "RF link extender" actually receives the RF from your 9910 and then sends its own RF output that can be received by your 9910 receiving bases? If that is the case, then all I would need is the transmitter portion of what you have.
Thanks,
Phil

makrakis wrote:
I am in the exact same boat as you are and here is what I know we need to find out. What is the frequency of the 9910? I believe it is 433 MHZ +/-. Terk and powermid operate at 418 MHZ. "Myextender" supposively opoerates at 433mhz. I hooked up my RF-LINK WAVECOM SR which I believe is 433MHZ and it bomed the the 9910's signal everywhere and the three URC9910 commnad centers recieved them beautifully and controlled 3 different M/N Direct TV recievers. You only need the IR tranmitter or some call it reciever depending on the manufacturer. The 9910 command center will recieve the signal but it must be the same RF carrier. I have an e-mail into ONEFORALL to verify their carrier frequency for the RF link. I will follow up when I find something out. Greg
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makrakis



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
Location: leonardtown, MD

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: More on RF amplifiers Reply with quote

On the RF-LINK WAVECOM SR, the RCA component demodulated video and audio is transmitted on the 2.4 GHZ carier. The IR command from your remote is transmitted at 433 MHZ. But the WAVECOM SR modele is an overkill if you don't need to tranmit the video/audio. Thie IR extender feature (Which is what you want) then modulates you IR signal and puts it on a SEPARATE RF carrier of 433 MHZ. That said, since I can't find any pure RF repeaters (other than the X10 which is too low in frequency and not compatible), I bought 3 simple IR-RF extenders, RF-LINK M/N AWX-7011 (without the audio-video link feature which is associated with the RF-LINK WAVECOM SR). I paid $36 each including shipping from wholesalebyus.com. I ordered them last week but I have not recieved them yet - but I did not see them on his site this week. $39 (includes shipping is the next best price - B&H electronics). Here is how I am going to use these units. I will put the transmitters from RF-LINK AWX-7011 in each room that I want to watch TV. Now I am using 3 diferrent model DIRECT TV SAT recievers and A/B/C switches to control signal inputs. Then put the ONE FOR ALL Command center aimed at the components you are trying to control in another room. In the case of the RF-LINK WAVECOM SR which also uses 433 MHZ for the IR LINK, you NEVER miss a key stroke. I should have the final data point next week when I get the simpler AWX-7011 model to confirm. ALSO NOTE: When you read the TITLE associated with the AWX-7011 you will be misled that the device uses a 2.4 GHZ carrier frequency for the IR LINK. (IT's NOT) read the narrative and you will see that they are using 433 MHZ. I also e-mailed the company to confirm and it is indeed 433 MHZ. Greg
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: More on RF amplifiers Reply with quote

I see that product on the following page
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&sku=321882
Sure enough, 433mhz signal.
Please clarify just how the 7011 works... I assume it receives IR and then transmits RF? If that is the case, then I'm sure it would receive the IR from the 9910 remote control. but when it converts it to RF, is the output RF signal "coded" the same as the RF transmission from the 9910? In other words, does the 9910 base receive the RF and CORRECTLY INTERPRET the signal that the 7011 creates? I know it is a close enough frequency at 433mhz.
If the 7011 does convert IR to RF in the same way as the 9910, I could probably use this. But could you tell me if the 7011 RF signal is stronger than the 9910 remote RF signal? Because that would be the clincher for me to get it.
I look forward to hearing how this works for you, and if you could please clarify my questions I'd certainly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Phil

makrakis wrote:
On the RF-LINK WAVECOM SR, the RCA component demodulated video and audio is transmitted on the 2.4 GHZ carier. The IR command from your remote is transmitted at 433 MHZ. But the WAVECOM SR modele is an overkill if you don't need to tranmit the video/audio. Thie IR extender feature (Which is what you want) then modulates you IR signal and puts it on a SEPARATE RF carrier of 433 MHZ. That said, since I can't find any pure RF repeaters (other than the X10 which is too low in frequency and not compatible), I bought 3 simple IR-RF extenders, RF-LINK M/N AWX-7011 (without the audio-video link feature which is associated with the RF-LINK WAVECOM SR). I paid $36 each including shipping from wholesalebyus.com. I ordered them last week but I have not recieved them yet - but I did not see them on his site this week. $39 (includes shipping is the next best price - B&H electronics). Here is how I am going to use these units. I will put the transmitters from RF-LINK AWX-7011 in each room that I want to watch TV. Now I am using 3 diferrent model DIRECT TV SAT recievers and A/B/C switches to control signal inputs. Then put the ONE FOR ALL Command center aimed at the components you are trying to control in another room. In the case of the RF-LINK WAVECOM SR which also uses 433 MHZ for the IR LINK, you NEVER miss a key stroke. I should have the final data point next week when I get the simpler AWX-7011 model to confirm. ALSO NOTE: When you read the TITLE associated with the AWX-7011 you will be misled that the device uses a 2.4 GHZ carrier frequency for the IR LINK. (IT's NOT) read the narrative and you will see that they are using 433 MHZ. I also e-mailed the company to confirm and it is indeed 433 MHZ. Greg
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makrakis



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
Location: leonardtown, MD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: RF LINKS Reply with quote

Your'e interpretation is correct....... The RF-Link products, as well as, any IR extender puts a lot more power in the air up to the extent allowed by the FCC. The FCC has limits on signal stregth at given frequency bands across the spectrum. You do not have to worry about the bandwith of the RF-LINK 's IR reciever ....it covers 40khz plus. Once the RF-LINK recieves the IR it accurately converts the signal to an electrical signal +/= 40khz typical and it gets modulated on the RF carrier at 430MHZ. The One For All recieves the modulated signal and demodulates the signal, pulling off the "IR signal" which is converted back to an IR transmision by the 9910 command signal and/or by the RF Link reciever which also emits IR. As far as the transmit power in a remote (it's worthless). You would drain your batteries in less than a week if they designed the 9910 remote control with a high RF level output that was equivalet to one of these IR/RF extenders. Remember the RF extender's amp operates off the 12vdc transformer that you plug in the wall. It is power limited only by what the FCC mandates and not by puny batteries which are a design tradeoff in power so that the remotes will last 6 months or greater without changing batteries. I will send an update when I get the new units (remember - my analysis is based on the RF-LINK Wavecom SR which should have an identical IR/RF transiever in it. Wait till Friday and I will have the new units and can test them in my home before you order one - Greg
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: RF LINKS Reply with quote

Cool! I will wait to hear how well that 7011 works. I think I saw one on Froogle.com link fot about $24 before shipping, i'll give the link if you need it.
But yes, i'd love to hear your results when the 7011 arrives.
Thanks,
Phil

makrakis wrote:
Your'e interpretation is correct....... The RF-Link products, as well as, any IR extender puts a lot more power in the air up to the extent allowed by the FCC. The FCC has limits on signal stregth at given frequency bands across the spectrum. You do not have to worry about the bandwith of the RF-LINK 's IR reciever ....it covers 40khz plus. Once the RF-LINK recieves the IR it accurately converts the signal to an electrical signal +/= 40khz typical and it gets modulated on the RF carrier at 430MHZ. The One For All recieves the modulated signal and demodulates the signal, pulling off the "IR signal" which is converted back to an IR transmision by the 9910 command signal and/or by the RF Link reciever which also emits IR. As far as the transmit power in a remote (it's worthless). You would drain your batteries in less than a week if they designed the 9910 remote control with a high RF level output that was equivalet to one of these IR/RF extenders. Remember the RF extender's amp operates off the 12vdc transformer that you plug in the wall. It is power limited only by what the FCC mandates and not by puny batteries which are a design tradeoff in power so that the remotes will last 6 months or greater without changing batteries. I will send an update when I get the new units (remember - my analysis is based on the RF-LINK Wavecom SR which should have an identical IR/RF transiever in it. Wait till Friday and I will have the new units and can test them in my home before you order one - Greg
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makrakis



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
Location: leonardtown, MD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: I still have not obtained 7011 Reply with quote

They still have not shipped my 7011 extenders..... I would say you will have low risk if you order your from the supplier you found and everything should work. Did not want to keep you hanging. Good Luck
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neuro



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you received this product yet? Just curious how well it works before I order mine..
Thank you!
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