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JP1 Remotes
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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 Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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I have uploaded other people's devices to my remotes, and have edited other people's devices, but have never put a device together from scratch, so I'm a newbie at making device codes.
I have a Fortec Star Lifetime sat receiver. I looked in the Yahoo files section, and found a Fortec Star 786 receiver, and thought it might work, but it didn't. I "learned" the keys, and found that they were NEC1 , device 32, whereas the 786 device in the files section was device 128. So I first tried to just change the device from 128 to 32. I think that when I did this, that maybe 3 of the buttons worked, and that was all. So I went through all the keys, and learned them, and wrote down the OBC and Hex #s for each key, then entered these into the "function" tab of Keymap, and then assigned them to keys in the buttons tab. I then moved these over to the IR program, and verified that all the hex commands in the device corresponded to the proper hex value. Everything seemed perfect, so I uploaded it to the remote, but NOTHING WORKS. When I had the "learned" keys on the remote, they worked fine, but the new device I put together doesn't work.
? Any idea what I could have done wrong?
I've uploaded the text file to the Yahoo files section under the
Fortec Star Lifetime name. txt name.
After doing what I did, I realized that I never specified a freq (it should have been 37914), and I also entered the "32" twice, both for Main device and also for sub device, because that is the way the 786 file was done, but I have no idea of the consequences of doing that. Also, in most of the "learned" keys, the window for "sent repeatedly while key held' had
+9002 -2266 +550 -96716 in it, but I don't see anywhere to insert that in the Keymap spreadsheet.
Anyway, my device looks like it should work to me, but it doesn't. Why?
Thanks. |
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Nils_Ekberg
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Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 1689
Location: Near Albany, NY
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Not knowing the device I have no way of knowing if what you entered is correct or not. I do however, have one question, when you got the OBC's and EFC's from the learned signal in IR did you make sure in KM/RM that you entered OBC's for OBC's or EFC's for EFC. In other words, look at the upgrade you are modifying and see if it is in OBC or EFC or HEX input mode and make sure you enter the same type from IR's learned signal.
Oh yeah, you don't have to worry about the "sent repeatedly stuff" as it is just supporting data to determine the code.
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Nils
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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| wejones wrote: | | wrote down the OBC and Hex #s for each key |
You just need the OBC for each key (after verifying that protocol, device, and subdevice match for all keys)
| wejones wrote: | | After doing what I did, I realized that I never specified a freq (it should have been 37914), |
You almost never need to worry about freq. There is a standard freq for each protocol that the remote will use. If the learned freq is wildly different from the standard you would need expert help. But that's very rare (and 37914 is fine).
| wejones wrote: | | and I also entered the "32" twice, both for Main device and also for sub device,. |
That's probably the problem You should enter what the decode of the learned signals showed. If the decode has a subdevice, enter one. If it doesn't don't. |
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Nils_Ekberg wrote: | Not knowing the device I have no way of knowing if what you entered is correct or not. I do however, have one question, when you got the OBC's and EFC's from the learned signal in IR did you make sure in KM/RM that you entered OBC's for OBC's or EFC's for EFC. In other words, look at the upgrade you are modifying and see if it is in OBC or EFC or HEX input mode and make sure you enter the same type from IR's learned signal.
Oh yeah, you don't have to worry about the "sent repeatedly stuff" as it is just supporting data to determine the code. |
Thanks. Re OBCs, etc, I had written down OBCs and Hex values, so in KM, I hit the button that put OBCs over on the left, and entered them there, and I checked that it calculated the hex values properly.
A couple other things occurred to me. In the IR "learning" window, is there a chance that the "32" I read there was "hex" and KM was asking for decimal? Also, was I supposed to create a "protocol ID" or was that created when I typed in the "32" for the device # ?
Thanks for replying.
One more thing, in case it helps, one of the learned keys was:
+9002 -4498 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -574 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -1700 +550 -40514 +9002 -2266 +550 -96716
thanks. |
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Mark Pierson
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| wejones wrote: | | In the IR "learning" window, is there a chance that the "32" I read there was "hex" and KM was asking for decimal? |
The Device in IR is a decimal number, and should be entered that way into KM.
| Quote: | | Also, was I supposed to create a "protocol ID" or was that created when I typed in the "32" for the device # ? |
You need to select the appropriate protocol name on the Setup sheet in KM that matches the name in IR's learned signal decode.
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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| wejones wrote: | | I also entered the "32" twice, both for Main device and also for sub device |
I'll try again (feeling ignored).
THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Enter 32 for device. Leave subdevice blank.
Also, I found two CCF files for the Topfield DSS receiver, which also uses NEC1 protocol, device 32, no subdevice. I expect that is a rebrand of the same device. |
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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| johnsfine wrote: | | wejones wrote: | | I also entered the "32" twice, both for Main device and also for sub device |
I'll try again (feeling ignored).
THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Enter 32 for device. Leave subdevice blank.
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Thanks. After the other poster said to check that the "learned" matched the KM, I noticed that the learned had a blank subdevice. I tried entering a "zero" for the subdevice, and that didn't seem to work either, although I had other problems, see below. However, I'm curious,
Is "blank" for the subdevice the same as my entering a "zero"? I'm a bit confused, because in KM, when I leave it blank, it gives the same parameters down below for the fixed data, as it did when I had two "32"s entered, but it's different than it was when I entered a "zero".
In the mean time, I'll try the blank though. That looks better.
The other problem I mentioned, is that I seem to have burned out the remote I was putting this on. :-( . The remote still works when it isn't attached to the JP1 cable, but goes blank, and doesn't communicate anymore when attached. I have 2 other remotes, and they still work with the cable, so I'm assuming something is wrong with the one remote. Ie whenever connected to the JP1 cable, if I push a button on the remote,nothing happens, but as soon as I disconnect it, it is functional again. Anyone ever seen this before??? This happened right after I put in new batteries. Don't know what I did.
I put the device with the zero into my other remote, and I'll try that with the "blank" version too.
Thanks. |
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Just answered one of my own questions.
I replaced the zero with blank, and it works now.
Thanks.
Now, if anyone has any hints as to what I did to burn out my other remote, and/or what I can do to trouble-shoot it.
Thanks again for figuring out the device. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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| wejones wrote: | | The remote still works when it isn't attached to the JP1 cable, but goes blank, and doesn't communicate anymore when attached. |
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| wejones wrote: | | This happened right after I put in new batteries. |
Once again the question contains the answer 
A voltage mismatch between the remote and the parallel port is very common. The most common (and least serious) result is that you can't operate the remote while it's connected. I'm not certain I understood you on the "doesn't communicate" point. If you mean it can't upload/download with IR.EXE, that's more of a problem than just can't operate while connected. If it just can't operate, disconnect it to operate.
In any case, I doubt you damaged anything. I think the batteries are the relevant factor. Try swapping batteries between a remote without the problem and the remote that has the problem. Usually the symptom follows the batteries rather than the remote.
What kind of JP1 cable do you have? and how old? The reccomended resistor values for a JP1 cable were changed a while back. The older (10k) value is more likely to cause problems like this than the newer (1k). |
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: |
| wejones wrote: | | This happened right after I put in new batteries. |
Once again the question contains the answer :)
A voltage mismatch between the remote and the parallel port is very common. The most common (and least serious) result is that you can't operate the remote while it's connected. I'm not certain I understood you on the "doesn't communicate" point. If you mean it can't upload/download with IR.EXE, that's more of a problem than just can't operate while connected. If it just can't operate, disconnect it to operate.
In any case, I doubt you damaged anything. I think the batteries are the relevant factor. Try swapping batteries between a remote without the problem and the remote that has the problem. Usually the symptom follows the batteries rather than the remote.
What kind of JP1 cable do you have? and how old? The reccomended resistor values for a JP1 cable were changed a while back. The older (10k) value is more likely to cause problems like this than the newer (1k). |
You were right again. I thought that it wasn't "communicating" because usually when the transfer is done, I see all the pixels in the display light up, but the thing remained blank, and seemed completely dead. However I just did a test, and sure enough, the JP1 transfers do still work, and the remote is functional once removed from the cable.
The cable is a couple years old. I got it from some "Blue"-something place along with an OFA remote. I'll check out the resistors.
Thanks. |
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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| johnsfine wrote: |
What kind of JP1 cable do you have? and how old? The reccomended resistor values for a JP1 cable were changed a while back. The older (10k) value is more likely to cause problems like this than the newer (1k). |
Just to report back, I checked the resistors, and according to my meter, they were 1.2K , so I guess it is a "newer" version. I checked the remote again today with IR, and it still was locking up the display, but now it was in the all pixels lit state all the time. So it seemed like the new batteries were draining down to normal. Then I tried what you suggested, and switched just one of the 4 batteries between my two remotes, and now both remotes are functional while attached to the JP1 interface.
So I guess it was just what you said, and was a situation of the new batteries being too strong.
Learn something every day.
I deleted the broken file, and put the good file in the device folder. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Fortec Star Lifetime device problems |
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| wejones wrote: | | Then I tried what you suggested, and switched just one of the 4 batteries between my two remotes, and now both remotes are functional while attached to the JP1 interface. |
I never suggest mixing dissimilar batteries in normal operation of a device. I had suggested switching the whole set of batteries just to verify that the problem was that the battery voltage in the remote was too high for perfect operation of the JP1 cable.
Since the JP1 cable is usable (despite the lack of usual feedback) even with the set of new batteries, I suggest switching back to orriginal sets (if you still remember what they were).
Extended operation of a battery powered device with dissimilar batteries can damage the batteries and cause some strange results. At minimum you'll waste much of the capacity of the newer batteries in the mixed set. But you may cause the older batteries to leak and (before that happens) you're likely to get the batteries into a state where they repeatedly work well for a few minutes when you start using the remote after a few hours rest, but then fail (remote resets) as you try to continue use. |
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wejones
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Sorry. I realized that you were recommending switching the whole set. I only switched one as a temporary experiment. I agree about mixing battery quality being a bad idea, and have already switched back.
thanks again. |
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