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Luxman TP-117
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just posted in the live file section a "V0.9" of my upgrades as I think it's good enough if anyone needs it - as stated before comments welcome

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25241
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:. I am starting to suspect that the CD control is just a pass through from the IR receiver but sadly my genius idea of hooking it to the IR in jack of an Oppo BDP-95 did not work. Don't know if I need an amplifier or something in line to make this work.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably right, many stereo systems have pass thru wires that connect the components, assuming they're all the same brand and type, where the audio receiver is the only one that receives the remote signals and it passes on the commands to the other components. I know I had a Kenwood system like this once, and Sony does the same.
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Barf
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

n8nagel wrote:
... hooking it to the IR in jack of an Oppo BDP-95 did not work.


The IR in jack on the Oppo is wired in a somewhat non-standard fashion. It is all to be found in the documentation.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
n8nagel wrote:
... hooking it to the IR in jack of an Oppo BDP-95 did not work.


The IR in jack on the Oppo is wired in a somewhat non-standard fashion. It is all to be found in the documentation.


Can you elaborate please? I do not know what the standard fashion is, nor do I have the Oppo service manual, although there is some detail on it in the owner's manual. I do have the TP-117 schematic which is nice. I did put a voltmeter on the cable while sending a remote signal to the TP-117; even though the light didn't come on on the TP-117 when sending Oppo codes (the standby light blinks when it receives a Luxman code), I did get a voltage swing on the cable, probably about 0.9V or so. I didn't put a scope on it but I can if that would tell me anything.

It would be truly amazing if I could get the Oppo working through the TP-117's cable because then I'd have my best media player hooked to my best preamp and actually working together in a way that I could use the Zone 2 output transparently. Of course I could also get one of the Luxman RC-503 IR repeaters (which probably haven't been made since 1991ish) and that would work as well (I assume; - HiFiEngine doesn't appear to have the installation sheet for those accessories), but it would be better to make it work with stuff I have on hand of course, and without having to find a place for an IR emitter.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
You're probably right, many stereo systems have pass thru wires that connect the components, assuming they're all the same brand and type, where the audio receiver is the only one that receives the remote signals and it passes on the commands to the other components. I know I had a Kenwood system like this once, and Sony does the same.


Well, I know that the *tape* controls on the Luxman are pretty rudimentary. Basically the controls all are in the preamp or receiver and they just send a voltage on a wire of a multi-pin cable. If anyone is following this and needs details on how to make that cable, post #16 here details that... it's basically a 8 pin mini DIN cable with one end cut off and a 8 pin DIN 262 degree plug soldered on.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/luxman-tp-117-remote-control-and-cables.808560/

However I suspect that the CD control is in fact just a pass through of the IR signal, and I don't see why it wouldn't work for other devices as well if I can puzzle out how to make it work, although I'm not sure that I actually have any devices besides the Oppo 95 and a 103 that have a similar connection.
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Barf
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The IR in jack on the Oppo is wired in a somewhat non-standard fashion. It is all to be found in the documentation.


Sorry, I must have confused it to the Oppo 83/85, which has a TSR (Tip-Sleve-Ring) 3.5mm jack. The 93/95 has a TS jack, sleve ground, tip signal (manual page 21). IIRC. I have been controlling mine with a GlobalCache GC-100 connected to the IR in jack, so it is not non-standard after all. Sorry for the confusion.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
Quote:
The IR in jack on the Oppo is wired in a somewhat non-standard fashion. It is all to be found in the documentation.


Sorry, I must have confused it to the Oppo 83/85, which has a TSR (Tip-Sleve-Ring) 3.5mm jack. The 93/95 has a TS jack, sleve ground, tip signal (manual page 21). IIRC. I have been controlling mine with a GlobalCache GC-100 connected to the IR in jack, so it is not non-standard after all. Sorry for the confusion.


No worries at all, but I seem to be unable to make it work in any case. I'm going to have to look into an accessory IR blaster for the TP-117 I guess. Hopefully *that* output is not non-standard (despite having an F-connector not a 3.5mm) unfortunately I don't have any laying around to play with so this will have to wait.
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n8nagel



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragged out the scope and tried to pick away at this today. There are two "remote repeater" outputs, one an F-connector, and one a 3.5mm mono headphone jack. Probe 1 on the F-connector and Probe 2 on the mono 3.5mm.

I have absolutely nothing on the F-connector so I'm very confused. I tested a spare TP-117 that is not in service due to an unrelated issue and I am having the same behavior there as well. I have no idea what this means...

However, I have +5VDC on the mono 3.5mm with a low going pulse train (both units), so apparently that is not standard and I need to convert this to something that either the Oppo or an IR blaster would recognize and use (assuming 0VDC and then +3.3Vish pulses when receiving/passing through a command?) I am getting pulses for everything IR received so this should work, whether or not it's a Luxman component. Apparently the Luxman CDP likes this format but the Oppo BDP-95 is looking for something else, because while I get nice pulses on the scope, it does nothing when the cable is plugged into the jack in the back.

So... what do I do next? Would love to get this playing nice with a universal remote and Oppo 95 (or other components of my choice)

Posted this here as well

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/93-re...ool-me-ir-emitters-blasters.html#post56389970

I apologize if this is super basic for some of you but I am definitely not an electronics guru so I am learning as I go here.
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n8nagel



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow up:

I did an image search for the RC-503 (the device that is supposed to connect to the F-connector and act as an IR repeater) apparently takes 9V batteries to operate. So there may be no output on the F-connector but something like a current sink (I'm guessing; I do not have a RC-503 to look at nor do I even have the instruction sheet for same as it does not appear to be scanned and posted anywhere)

so I'm back to using the 3.5mm connection as I describe above.

I asked Oppo Digital what input the BDP-95 was looking for on its IR In jack and got the following in response:

"The IR input is a high impedance voltage signal input so there is no current requirement or limitation. A signal level from 2V to 5V should work. The input signal must be raw (undecoded) IR signal with the 38kHz 41kHz carrier frequency included. "

Can someone translate that for me and let me know if I'm screwed or not?

thanks!
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Barf
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

n8nagel wrote:

"The IR input is a high impedance voltage signal input so there is no current requirement or limitation. A signal level from 2V to 5V should work. The input signal must be raw (undecoded) IR signal with the 38kHz 41kHz carrier frequency included. "

Can someone translate that for me and let me know if I'm screwed or not?

thanks!

To me, that is clear. Use for example a GlobalCache and a simple TS 3.5mm cable ("mono"), Or this thing (or similar) with the 3.5 mm cable replacing the sending LED(s), ground to sleve, pin 3 to tip.

Quote:

However, I have +5VDC on the mono 3.5mm with a low going pulse train

If that means what I think it means, it is wrong, should not be inverted.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
n8nagel wrote:

"The IR input is a high impedance voltage signal input so there is no current requirement or limitation. A signal level from 2V to 5V should work. The input signal must be raw (undecoded) IR signal with the 38kHz 41kHz carrier frequency included. "

Can someone translate that for me and let me know if I'm screwed or not?

thanks!

To me, that is clear. Use for example a GlobalCache and a simple TS 3.5mm cable ("mono"), Or this thing (or similar) with the 3.5 mm cable replacing the sending LED(s), ground to sleve, pin 3 to tip.

Quote:


But what I would like to do, if possible, is to use the IR output jack of the TP-117, because I actually do have the accessory "zone 2" repeater. There is literally no way to use the Zone 2 capabilities of the Luxman without using the accessory RC-501 connected to the Zone 2 remote input. I suppose I could use a parallel IR repeater system, but the functionality is already built into the TP-117 and I'm thinking it's probably a semi-easy (for someone who knows more about electronics than I) hack to utilize it for a modern blaster or to hardwire to the Oppo directly.

However, I have +5VDC on the mono 3.5mm with a low going pulse train

If that means what I think it means, it is wrong, should not be inverted.


Is there any way to convert that output to what the Oppo or a standard IR blaster is looking for? That would be ideal. I know that the unit is functional as intended as it controls a Luxman CDP, but the latter is broken and won't read discs so I would rather use the Oppo than fix the Luxman as while I do at some point like messing with old stuff and appreciate matchy matchy, I am pretty sure that a 10 year old Oppo will wax the floor with a 30 year old Luxman, never mind SACD, HDCD, DVD-A capabilities.

Thanks for the reply as always!
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yaworski



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Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@n8nagel, if you have a scope, is the output from 3.5mm jack modulated or not? When it goes low, is it a constant low signal or is it modulated with 38 kHz or so?

I'm asking because the output from demodulating IR receivers is usually active low, so the unit is probably using such receiver and the 3.5 mm jack is probably connected to its output.

If I'm correct, then you'd need a device which would take demodulated input (active low) and add a 38 kHz modulation and output it as active high. It should be possible to do this with some cheap Arduino.
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n8nagel



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yaworski wrote:
@n8nagel, if you have a scope, is the output from 3.5mm jack modulated or not? When it goes low, is it a constant low signal or is it modulated with 38 kHz or so?

I'm asking because the output from demodulating IR receivers is usually active low, so the unit is probably using such receiver and the 3.5 mm jack is probably connected to its output.

If I'm correct, then you'd need a device which would take demodulated input (active low) and add a 38 kHz modulation and output it as active high. It should be possible to do this with some cheap Arduino.


I wasn't paying attention to the time scale, but it appeared that each pulse was made up of multiple square waves. I can check again some evening and see if the pulse width would correspond to a ~38kHz carrier.
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yaworski



Joined: 22 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is modulated and you just want to invert the signal, then a simple bipolar transistor with two resistors should be enough to do it.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/30240

In this answer you have schematics with both PNP (left) and NPN (right) transistors. I'm not sure which would be better in this case. I think maybe PNP, as it seems to be turned on by pulling the transistor base to ground, which connects output to the +5 v through the transistor. When the transistor is turned off, then the output is pulled down to the ground through R2.

Or you can go with 74HC04 as also mentioned in the answer.
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