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One Function for new Upgrade has different 'sub device code'

 
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: One Function for new Upgrade has different 'sub device code' Reply with quote

Hi again



As an experimental stage to setting things up properly on RCA RCRP05B, I saved a new device upgrade for the G20Tv, with discrete Tv input commands. Each was defined as a Function by entering the OBC which was copied from its learned command.

RMIR completed the rest of the definitions, but one of the four functions, namely InputTv, has a different 'sub device' setting ('2') than the other four HdmiInputs which share 'sub device' '4' so the device was set as protocol 'Panasonic', device '128', and sub device '4'

When the new device Upgrade was saved, reloaded into the earlier image, then uploaded to the remote, all the relevant TV buttons worked, except the one for InputTV (the one which had 'sub device 2').

(The button 'Last' on RCRP05B, is part of the Channel group but Channel Control Lock had been turned off)

Is the different number for its 'sub device' likely to be the reason why InputTv does not work, and if so is there a way round this please?

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Transx, you've given us very little to go on. In the JP1 forum, we like to have the files, not the screen prints. Its like asking a mechanic to diagnose a problem from a picture of the engine.

We could guess all day, but we can't really know until we have access to your files. What we need is the learns that you captured for the InputTV and the RMIR file that you are working with.

The first thing we'll do is check to see that you used OBC's, many people make the mistake of using EFCs, but since you said OBC and have been doing your homework, I don't expect to see this problem.

The next thing we'll do is load this up into a remote and see if you are getting what you expect. This could indicate a problem with the RDF, or a problem with protocols.ini or decodeIR, that would be outside your control.

The thing is, with the picture of an upgrade value, its pretty hard to tell what is going on. What we want to do is TRY it and see.

We have a diagnosis area, upload your file/files there and then post a link to them and we can give them a spin.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Vicky

I see what you are saying and hope I did it right and these are what is needed:-

1.) The earlier RMIR image file,
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=11056
which contains the learns that were captured for the Panasonic TX-P42G20‘s InputTV and other Hdmi commands. They were learned to buttons on the device based on the built-in manufacturer’s code 0650 for the PanaTV.

2.) This is the RMIR file as modified by the addition of the fresh Upgrade with made up code 1650. It contains the Tv Input functions derived from the OBCs discovered in 1.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=11055

Regards
Chris

PS
It is working again, please see below


Last edited by tranx on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to use the Panasonic Combo protocol if you want to mix different sub-device codes in one upgrade.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Rob, can i just change the protocol setting on the upgrade to Panasonic Combo, save the upgrade, and then upload it again?

Vicky,
Somehow it is working, maybe I pressed the wrong buttons - not for the first time. Thank you again.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
Thank you Rob, can i just change the protocol setting on the upgrade to Panasonic Combo, save the upgrade, and then upload it again?

Mostly, but you also need to go to the Functions tab and enter the sub-device for each function.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
tranx wrote:
Thank you Rob, can i just change the protocol setting on the upgrade to Panasonic Combo, save the upgrade, and then upload it again?

Mostly, but you also need to go to the Functions tab and enter the sub-device for each function.
Right, it's now working with the right sub-device for each of the five discrete Tv input functions.

Thank you both
regards
Chris
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that the G20's functions are covered in the ST30 (G20 is the previous model year set) file located HERE , if anyone wants to refer to it.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenough1 wrote:
I believe that the G20's functions are covered in the ST30 (G20 is the previous model year set) file located HERE , if anyone wants to refer to it.
greenough1, thanks for the suggestion.

In fact I did download your upgrade but got to first trying 'Panasonic TX-32PK20 CRT television' http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=5078
- I think it was because that had TX- at the start but, since most of it worked, I did not get to the ST30! It was just the guide, return, and exit buttons which differed.

With the learned OBCs and the advice above I have added discrete inputs InputTV Hdmi1/2/3/4 and will post the results as an upgrade 'Panasonic TX-P42G20 Plasma with RCA RCRP05B', if that is the right sort of label?

I was pleased to find that JP1 allows macros on the Device Selection buttons of RCRP05B and, in the image for the remote, just put simple ones there e.g. on the 'Sat' device button: TV, Day1 (for the Tv button which carries Hdmi1), SAT, so they set these inputs when switching.

Also planning to post upgrade files for the 'remote2' setting for our trusty Pana EX-85 (which interferes with SCBTT using the remote1), Humax PVR9300T, FoxSat HDR, and Pana SC-BTT370 Home Theatre when they are done.

With learning method/OBC being so quick and easy I don't think I will need EFC/KeyMoves but guess they might be handy just if the original remotes are not available, or for some exotic commands - or have I missed something?

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
With learning method/OBC being so quick and easy I don't think I will need EFC/KeyMoves but guess they might be handy just if the original remotes are not available, or for some exotic commands - or have I missed something?

Regards
Chris


Keymoves are the key to what makes the UEI remotes so exceptional.

One of the things keymoves can do is allow you to stack keys with shifted keys and if you are using a modern extender x-shifted keys. This allows you to map 40 keys to a 30 key remote...

The second thing it allows is to create an activity based remote. You should stop seeing your remote as 5 individual remotes, all wrapped up into one, and start thinking of your remote as an activity remote. You can use certain function from TV mode and keymove them into DVD mode, so that you don't keep having to change from one mode to the other...

And finally keymoves are the foundation for extenders, DSM's, LKP's, Pauses, ToadTogs....

Keymoves rule!
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
...One of the things keymoves can do is allow you to stack keys with shifted keys and if you are using a modern extender x-shifted keys. This allows you to map 40 keys to a 30 key remote...
Could you expand upon that? (I have come across keys stacked with shifted keys, where no keymoves were in evidence).
Quote:
The second thing it allows is to create an activity based remote...
Have played with MX500, Philips USB, and Harmony remotes but don't like lcds. Although the activity thing is not so much a hurdle I have rather retreated to plenty of easily recognised/remembered buttons.
I find a neat arrangement in a pattern is preferable to peering at a screen and pressing buttons just to navigate; currently quite like the device buttons to change inputs so power buttons can stay with their own devices, except for macro buttons for progressive In and Out of standby,
with mains power controls to turn off various parts of the permanent Christmas tree Laughing
Quote:
...You can use certain function from TV mode and keymove them into DVD mode...
Now that is interesting too. At first I seemed to get away with learning a few functions from strange devices but stopped doing it as soon as I saw that RMIR chooses new protocols, and that OBCs can be missing: guessed that it would be bad news even if they were used to make the strangers native - so backed off quick because of those bad vibes.
Quote:
...keymoves are the foundation for extenders, DSM's, LKP's, Pauses, ToadTogs....Keymoves rule!
DSMs are available on undoctored RCRP05B but have not discovered if they are still feasible with JP1 upgrades...
I understand what ToadTogs might do because Harmony keeps count like that, but what are LKPs please?
Pauses are indeed a good incentive to venture into that territory but did spot a couple of 'bricked it with extender' posts Surprised

In the KeyMove panel what is the purpose of the choice between 'EFC-5', 'Hex', and 'Key' please? i.e. why not just go for 'Key'? is it that 'EFC-5' adds the KeyMove as an available function, perhaps for a macro or phantom key? and what is the use for 'Hex' there?

In devices, are the Devs 4/5/6 sort-of phantom devices, which I suppose might be called by a spare key, or in a macro?

Regards
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
vickyg2003 wrote:
...One of the things keymoves can do is allow you to stack keys with shifted keys and if you are using a modern extender x-shifted keys. This allows you to map 40 keys to a 30 key remote...
Could you expand upon that? (I have come across keys stacked with shifted keys, where no keymoves were in evidence).

When we assign functions to buttons while creating an upgrade, there are only certain keys available without doing a keymove. The list of keys available in the upgrade depend on what "device type" was selected in RM or KM. In the more modern remotes the list of keys availabe by device type is more extensive than it was in earlier remotes, so you probably won't notice it as much. In US remotes, there are usually not shifted keys available in the device type keymap, while European remotes might have 2 or 4 shifted keys in a keymap. So typically a shifted keys can only be used by macros or keymoves.


Quote:

In the KeyMove panel what is the purpose of the choice between 'EFC-5', 'Hex', and 'Key' please? i.e. why not just go for 'Key'? is it that 'EFC-5' adds the KeyMove as an available function, perhaps for a macro or phantom key? and what is the use for 'Hex' there?



Typically Keymoves are either EFC or Key. Key was introduced at the same time as UEI went from using 3 digit EFC's to 5 digit EFCs. Ealier remotes don't have the Key option. If a function is assigned to a key, either in an an upgrade, or in the a built-in setup code, then the UEI remote will look up the key value in the setup code. If the function is not available in an upgrade, then you can use an EFC style keymove, and the function doesn't have to be assigned. Key style keymoves take one less byte to set up. The only time I have used HEX style keymoves, was when I was writing new special protocols so I'm not sure what the average user uses Hex for, but I'll bet there is a reason to do that too.

Quote:

Quote:
The second thing it allows is to create an activity based remote...
Have played with MX500, Philips USB, and Harmony remotes but don't like lcds. Although the activity thing is not so much a hurdle I have rather retreated to plenty of easily recognised/remembered buttons.
I find a neat arrangement in a pattern is preferable to peering at a screen and pressing buttons just to navigate; currently quite like the device buttons to change inputs so power buttons can stay with their own devices, except for macro buttons for progressive In and Out of standby,
with mains power controls to turn off various parts of the permanent Christmas tree Laughing

You and me both. I tried a kameleon for a bit, and couldn't stand having to look down at the screen all the time. I'm a hard button remote user.
With the RCA remote that you are using, you'd have a lot less reason to use keymoves for punch through than most of us. But still there are typically a few keys that you need access to in many device modes. IE when I'm in DVD mode, I typically need access to the aspect ratio key of my TV. So I keymove that into DVD, VCR, and AUX, so that I can always change the aspect button without toggling away from the mode I chose. Its kind of like Volume Punch Through, only for aspect ratio.


Quote:

Quote:
...You can use certain function from TV mode and keymove them into DVD mode...
Now that is interesting too. At first I seemed to get away with learning a few functions from strange devices but stopped doing it as soon as I saw that RMIR chooses new protocols, and that OBCs can be missing: guessed that it would be bad news even if they were used to make the strangers native - so backed off quick because of those bad vibes.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. I only use RMIR as a tester, I much prefer IR, so its probably that I'm just not as familar with the software to figure this out

Quote:

Quote:
...keymoves are the foundation for extenders, DSM's, LKP's, Pauses, ToadTogs....Keymoves rule!
DSMs are available on undoctored RCRP05B but have not discovered if they are still feasible with JP1 upgrades...

Ah yes, forgot that the RCA can do a native DSM, most remotes can't do that.

Quote:

I understand what ToadTogs might do because Harmony keeps count like that, but what are LKPs please?

LKP stands for Long Key Presses. DKP for doubll keypresses. Extenders usually come bundled with the LKP/DKP protocol. I don't like the DKP, because most of my users aren't quick enough to get the DKP to work, but the LKP is an absolute must have. What the LKP/DKP does is to allow you to run different strings of operations depending on how you press a key. I'm not a big toadtog person since I use multiple remotes at each location, but they can be fun too as long as they don't get out of synch.

Quote:

Pauses are indeed a good incentive to venture into that territory but did spot a couple of 'bricked it with extender' posts Surprised

The pause shouldn't be able to brick a remote, but there are a few operations that can. When installing JP1.3 extenders, changing the macro speed, changing the leds that flash for phantoms, you can brick a remote if you are not paying close attention. Follow the directions carefully. The biggest thing here is to use FRESH BATTERIES, and to be using name brand batteries, not those knock off brands that are sold at the dollar store, and don't fit snuggly into the battery compartment. Momentary low voltage is a real problem in these operations.

Quote:

In devices, are the Devs 4/5/6 sort-of phantom devices, which I suppose might be called by a spare key, or in a macro?

Regards

The RCA thinks its an 8 device remote. It just doesn't have 8 phyiscal buttons. So yes setting them up as a spare key works. Typically you set up a macro on a shifted-device key that just says Dev-5, and then its as if you were in another device mode.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:

...You can use certain function from TV mode and keymove them into DVD mode...
tranx wrote:
Now that is interesting too. At first I seemed to get away with learning a few functions from strange devices but stopped doing it as soon as I saw that RMIR chooses new protocols, and that OBCs can be missing: guessed that it would be bad news even if they were used to make the strangers native - so backed off quick because of those bad vibes

I'm not sure what you are saying here. I only use RMIR as a tester, I much prefer IR, so its probably that I'm just not as familar with the software to figure this out

That was tactful!...I think what I was hoping for were features like the 'device combiner' protocol on the Device Upgrade Editor page or External Functions which I am getting to understand a bit better when reading "Using Remote Master" general notes:
http://controlremote.sourceforge.net/Readme.html#extfunctions.

Thanks again for the tips.

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tranx,

The device combiner is pretty cool, but you probably won't be needing the device combiner in your remote. That's because there are so many combo protocols and the remotes have so much more memory than we were dealing with in the original EEPROM signals, and your remote uses 5 digit EFCs. All those things come together to make the device combiner kind of obsolete.

I learned about EFC style keymoves long before I heard of JP1. I called OneForAll for some support, and they gave me the EFCs over the phone. It sold me on OneForAll remotes forever. When I got my first learner, I used to use learns to augment the functions of my remote. That worked great until I ran into the RC5 protocol. Sometimes learns just don't cut it.

Like I said, keymoves rule!
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right Vicky. So I resorted to keymoves in order to 'punch through' the discrete input functions from the Tv device's selection buttons.

I did try macros from input functions placed on Dev4 buttons, but that was so slow acting compared to the keymoves.

Coming along and Keymoves rule!

Chris
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