JP1 Remotes

Been playing with this for the past week with moderate success and now have to ask for help. Only interested in help with goal #1 at this point. (Will continue thread on other goals when #1 is 100% done.)

Goal(s):
1) Create a simulated VCR setup code that generates a unique RC-5 code for EVERY button; want to maximize controls for a Hauppauge PVR-250, and can handle each code on the IR receiver side.
2) Create an RCA VCR setup code that works on VCR2 to work in parallel with the pre-programmed VCR1.
3) Create setup codes for Mitsubishi TV, JC Penney TV, Kenwood receiver, Kenwood CD player, etc. while maintaining pre-programmed working codes, like the Comcast cable box.

Inventory:
- OFA URC-8810w (on box) / URC-8810B00 (on remote) from Wal-Mart
- Standard JP1 cable (parallel)
- IR v5.0.0
- Remote Master v0.96a (don't have MS Excel for KM)
- Win2k 865PERLK P4 3.0Ghz

Goal 1 actions:
- RM exection. Created Remote=URC-801x
>>>> NOTE 1: Is this the right remote to have selected?
- Setup tab: setup code 1111, RC-5, Dev1=30
- Functions tab: created a unique OBC for each of the 49 buttons
- File/Save as: created a .rmdu backup file
- Output tab: copied "Device Upgrade Code" into clipboard
- IR execution. Selected remote type: URC-881x_801x_601x x3 8K$1815 (6_80_8x3)
>>>> NOTE 2: Is this the right remote to have selected?
- General tab: selected "Download From Remote" to test JP1 cable. Downloaded correct codes as programmed from the remote
- Devices tab: selected "Add" button to add RM data
- Upgrade Device dialog: pasted RM data into top text box. Filled in hex in top text box and "Key Moves" bottom text box, identified Device type and Setup code. Selected 'Ok' button
- Device Button Selector dialog: selected Device Button = AUX for code 1111
- General tab: selected "Upload To Remote", confirmed; seemed to do something

Issues, after testing w/ my IR reciever (Hauppauge's ir.exe, same name diff program):
1) Did I pick the right remote .rdf(?) for IR / RM?
2) The "Fav" button seems to keep sending the "CH+" code repeatedly without end.
3) The "Rec" button requires TWO presses to get accepted by the IR receiver. The even #'d presses send the signal.
4) These buttons don't work: L2, L3, L4, PIP, Move, Swap, Sleep. I can't determine yet if Hauppauge's ir.exe ran out of memory for codes (and these are the overflow) or if they aren't generating / receiving signals.
5) Simple button question: TV, VCR, DVD, AUX, SAT, CD, CBL, RCVR are the 8 devices that can be controlled and SET and LIGHT seem to be preprogrammed too. These can be reprogrammed??? Bad idea, no? Can I accidentally affect them with what I have done? All have "*"s by them. Like the PIP/M1/L1 set do to.
6) Trickier button question: What is the HomeTheater button do inherently? What SHOULD it do were I to reprogram it?
7) Advanced button question: RM has "Phantom[1-4]" buttons, and a whole bunch of "?_TV", "?_VCR", etc buttons. Info? Advice? Ignore?

Any other hints / help greatly appreciated. This has been sort of fun to figure out myself over the past week, but am ready to advance to things experienced users recommend. Please only help on Goal #1, as I want to finish something before moving on, and want to actually see if I can figure out the others on my own before giving up.

http://toongal.superherokicks.com/HTPC/JP1-040412A.zip
Included are my .rdmu file, the .err file from rmaster (lots of earlier failures tonight), a .txt file saved from IR.exe (what IS this?), and my Irremote.ini file (for the Hauppauge 250 if interested).

Thanks in advance for any help.

ToonGal wrote:- RM exection. Created Remote=URC-801x
>>>> NOTE 1: Is this the right remote to have selected?

No, technically you should select the URC-881x, but in this case, no harm done because the URC-801x is the same.

ToonGal wrote:- IR execution. Selected remote type: URC-881x_801x_601x x3 8K$1815 (6_80_8x3)
>>>> NOTE 2: Is this the right remote to have selected?

Unless you are using the Extender version3 with an 8K EEPROM whose special address is $1815, then this is not the correct remote to select. You should select the URC-881x/801x/601x remote.

ToonGal wrote:- General tab: selected "Download From Remote" to test JP1 cable. Downloaded correct codes as programmed from the remote

You should normally always download from the remote first, as IR will try to pick the corrext remote RDF for you. It sounds like you managed to override this behavior in this case.

ToonGal wrote:2) The "Fav" button seems to keep sending the "CH+" code repeatedly without end.

The "Fav" button has special characteristics built into the remote. Normally, the only way around this is to use an extender.

ToonGal wrote:3) The "Rec" button requires TWO presses to get accepted by the IR receiver. The even #'d presses send the signal.

This is normal for the Record button, UEI's way of making sure you don't accidentally start recording. You can usually bypass this by putting a key move on the Record button.

ToonGal wrote:4) These buttons don't work: L2, L3, L4, PIP, Move, Swap, Sleep. I can't determine yet if Hauppauge's ir.exe ran out of memory for codes (and these are the overflow) or if they aren't generating / receiving signals.

If the red LED on the remote comes on when you press the button, chances are it's sending an IR code. If you have a video camera handy, most can see infrared, so you might be able to confirm that it's sending something that way.

ToonGal wrote:5) Simple button question: TV, VCR, DVD, AUX, SAT, CD, CBL, RCVR are the 8 devices that can be controlled and SET and LIGHT seem to be preprogrammed too. These can be reprogrammed??? Bad idea, no? Can I accidentally affect them with what I have done? All have "*"s by them. Like the PIP/M1/L1 set do to.

They can only be "reprogrammed" by using an extender, so it's unlikely you've changed their behavior in any way. The "*" means that the button is not in the map for the device type you have chosen, so a key move will be generated for it. While KM & RM will allow generating key moves for almost any button, there's no guarantee the remote will honor it.

ToonGal wrote:7) Advanced button question: RM has "Phantom[1-4]" buttons, and a whole bunch of "?_TV", "?_VCR", etc buttons. Info? Advice? Ignore?

The phantom buttons can be used in macros. They are buttons that do not exist physically on the remote, but the remote will process them in a macro like any other button. Typically, people put discrete on or off commands on them. The ?_TV, etc. buttons are there because you are using the incorrect RDF for your remote. They are used by the extender, but not with an unextended remote.

Thanks for the quick response Mike! Now jogging instead of crawling. Ready to run. Here's the update(s):

1) FINISHED. What was I thinking...? Talk about spot-the-obvious-move / RTFM... Soooooooo embarassed. Select the simplest form of the actual model number. Who knew?
2a) "extender"? Simple definition?
3a) "key move"? Simple definition?
4) FINISHED. They are all working. Too many keys in the debug section, overwhelming Irremote.ini. Tested them in sections and all correctly defined.
5) FINISHED. Whew. I like them just the way they are.
6) It's strange that this button doesn't seem to actually DO anything so far.
7a) "macro"? Simple definition? You were right about all the other buttons disappearing.

For 2, 3, and 7, I think I just have to learn what these things are, how they can help, and what I should pick them doing. Ready to run now, but in the mean time, think I might tackle RCA VCR2 before going to bed.

Thanks again, Mike. Keep those cards and letters coming, anyone with input.

Goal 2 actions:
- Downloaded RCA VCR keymappings. Took earlier poster's advice to change VCR1 device code 14 to VCR2 device code 13.
- Loaded default with code 13 to remote. Worked great! Yay!
- Mapped all keys from old remote to new one except "+100", "Index", and "F.Adv/CS".
- Learned +100 and Index to the L[1-4] buttons multiple times until found the RCA mapping. Programmed them to buttons w/ code and flying.

Issues:
1) F.Adv/CS button mapping IDENTICALLY each time, but with an OBC code (11) that didn't map. Unfortunately, commercial skip is a VERY important button (esp compared to +100). Details of L1-L4 (all identical) below. At least L1 is working for now, but really want to map all the buttons for backup purposes, since the remote is over 15 years old...
2) The original RCA remote has Volume up/down buttons. The VCR itself doesn't have any volume controls, but the remote maps the volume buttons on VCR to the volume button of TV. Is this possible? My TV is code 0060, if I can find the volume up/down codes for that and add it to a VCR section. Possible? Would much rather have volume for the TV via the VCR buttons for convenience if possible.

The two codes I have for the RCA remote are not in the saved codes online. This of interest to anyone? How would I go about updating online codes, or are these too minor/trivial to matter?

Learned information for F.Adv:
- Protocol=Gap-508-1529-5?, OBC=11, Misc=B
- Frequency=56737
- Sent once key is pressed:
+20356 -3800 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +1108 -8046 +4088 -3782 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -972 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -1958 +508 -1958

ToonGal wrote: 2a) "extender"? Simple definition?

http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/faq/1011 ... l#10128423

ToonGal wrote: 3a) "key move"? Simple definition?

http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/faq/1011 ... l#10120487

ToonGal wrote: 6) It's strange that this button doesn't seem to actually DO anything so far.

It puts the remote into HT mode.

ToonGal wrote: 7a) "macro"? Simple definition? You were right about all the other buttons disappearing.

A key globally (not device mode specific) defined as a sequence of other key codes.

ToonGal wrote: 1) F.Adv/CS button mapping IDENTICALLY each time, but with an OBC code (11) that didn't map.

That decode is wrong, so the OBC 11 is meaningless. Was it the only decode for that learned signal, or was there a decode with the correct protocol (RCA I assume).

Maybe it was a bad learn. Or maybe it triggers some flaw in my decoding software. I prefer not to hand decode from the form in which you posted the learned signal data (though Jon often does that). The usual policy if you have a learned signal that doesn't decode correctly it to upload the saved IR.EXE file containing it to the Yahoo JP1 diagnosis folder, then post the URL of that file back here. Then any expert can open your file in IR and see what's really going on. But first try relearning with the two remotes well aimed and supported on a good surface (not held in your hands) and using a long enough press of the OEM (RCA) remote key to learn the full repeat pattern (hold it until the double blink on the UEI remote).

ToonGal wrote: 2) The original RCA remote has Volume up/down buttons. The VCR itself doesn't have any volume controls, but the remote maps the volume buttons on VCR to the volume button of TV. Is this possible? My TV is code 0060, if I can find the volume up/down codes for that and add it to a VCR section. Possible? Would much rather have volume for the TV via the VCR buttons for convenience if possible.

It's called VPT (Volume punch thru)
http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/faq/1011 ... l#10125397
You probably can get VPT set up so the remote will use TV vol keys when in VCR mode without needing to find the TV vol codes and KeyMove them for VCR mode. If there is something limitin your use of VPT, you could do it as three KeyMoves instead (it's easy to find the codes for vol for a common setup code like TV/0060). Or you could use the extender, which has a more powerful version of VPT immune from the various things that might prevent VPT from being used on an unextended remote.

johnsfine wrote:

ToonGal wrote: 1) F.Adv/CS button mapping IDENTICALLY each time, but with an OBC code (11) that didn't map.

That decode is wrong, so the OBC 11 is meaningless. Was it the only decode for that learned signal, or was there a decode with the correct protocol (RCA I assume).

Maybe it was a bad learn. Or maybe it triggers some flaw in my decoding software. I prefer not to hand decode from the form in which you posted the learned signal data (though Jon often does that).

Just so I'm consistent, its RCA:13:32 EFC 19

Status:
G1, 2) Fav button not working
G1, 3) Rec button requires two clicks
G1, 7) Use for Phantom / macros
G2, COMPLETE. Steadier scanning really helped. Thanks!
G3, COMPLETE. Reduced all remotes to the following:
- 0150 TV Mitsubishi CS-26301,VS-50501.rmdu
- 0202 VCR RCA.rmdu
- 0672 DVD Apex AD-500W.rmdu
- 1111 PVR URC-8810w RC-5 buttons.rmdu
- 1027 RCVR Kenwood KR-V6020.rmdu
- 0190 CD Kenwood DP-M6620.rmdu
- ToonGal URC-8810w Remote.IR

Issues:
A) All individual .rmdu files are correct and complete. However, only a subset of these can be loaded before the "Move/Macro:" section fills up in ir.exe (v5.0.0). "Upgrade" and "Learned" seem to be relatively empty.
B) Read def for all above, but the 2a) 3a) and 7a) defs don't MEAN much to me. I think I'm getting lost in the technical definiton of what it says instead of seeing the practical application of what it means. My guess is some/all of these SOLVE my A) problem, but can't find the next step. Suggestions on next step greatly appreciated.
C) The RCVR and CD are both by Kenwood, and have similar mutually exclusive button usages. For example, the receiver remote is mainly power, volume, input selection; the cd player is mostly disc selection, track selection, and cd play controls. Any way to merge these two functions onto only one mapping of a remote selection, since this remote has more than enough buttons to do what I want?
D) I mapped out my components relatively well and was very thorough. Would someone like to take a look at them to see if they are the problem? Further, is there a way post-review to post them to the forum for others to use?

Even if I were 'stuck' with what I have now, it's been a fun learning experience, and I think controlling only the 4 main components would be 'good enough'. I know by trying to use all 8 buttons for 8-9 components is aggressive, but having fun playing.

Thanks again for all your help.

ToonGal wrote:B) Read def for all above, but the 2a) 3a) and 7a) defs don't MEAN much to me. I think I'm getting lost in the technical definiton of what it says instead of seeing the practical application of what it means. My guess is some/all of these SOLVE my A) problem, but can't find the next step. Suggestions on next step greatly appreciated.

I think the first thing you'll have to grasp is the term Key Move. The term originates with the manufacturer of the remotes, who chose to call the feature "Key Mover". Key Copy or Function Copy might have been more descriptive, but we're stuck with the name they came up with.

A key move is a sequence of 5 or 6 bytes stored in the "Move/Macro" area of the EEPROM. It is assigned to a button within a specific device mode (i.e., the TV/VCR button while the remote is in CABLE mode). It tells the remote to use a specific setup code and function when this button is pressed, rather than what the button might otherwise do.

Key moves are why the Move/Macro area in your remote is so full. Why should this be? Because each of the upgrades you created in RM required some key moves in order to get the buttons assigned to the functions you designated. Why do only some functions need key moves? Because the remote contains an internal "map" of which keys it considers native to a specific device type. Buttons in this map do not need key moves. Buttons not in the map require them. If you look very carefully at the Button column on the Buttons tab, you'll see a tiny asterisk after some of the button names. Those buttons require key moves if you assign a function to them.

There is usually a different "map" for each device type. Some maps contain more buttons than others. You can choose, for example, to use a Cable device type for a DVD upgrade, if it would create fewer key moves. (The only downside is that it may affect volume punch-through, but that's a topic for another discussion.)

Other than the above, there are only two other things you can do to prevent running out of key move space:

1) Eliminate some of the function assignments in RM that are using key moves.

2) Use an extender. An extender is a program written by a JP1 user that takes over control of the remote and makes it behave differently. The big advantage here is that extenders create more Move/Macro space by eliminating the learning functions of the remote.

Given your current state of affairs, I would not suggest you try to learn about extenders until you get the basic fuctionality of the remote well in hand.

ToonGal wrote:G1, 3) Rec button requires two clicks

As I mentioned before, this is standard for the Rec button. In order to bypass the double-press requirement, you'll have to create a key move in IR for the Rec button, even if it duplicates the function assignment you made in RM. (You could omit assigning any fuction to the Rec button in RM.)

ToonGal wrote:G1, 7) Use for Phantom / macros

A macro is useful when you want the remote to issue a sequence of IR commands. For example, you might want to send a power-on command to the TV and DVD player with one button press. A macro is basically a list of 1 to 15 buttons to press. When you execute a macro (by pressing the button it's assigned to), the remote pretends to press each button in the list. Macros are also stored in the Move/Macro area. In addition, they are "global", meaning that it does not matter what device button you have active. A button with a macro assigned to it will do the same thing in Cable, TV, DVD modes, etc.

Phantom buttons are probably not important to you yet. They are buttons that do not physically exist on the remote. You can use them within a macro. For example, you could assign a power-on command to a phantom button with a key move, and then refer to the phantom button in a macro to issue the power-on command.

ToonGal wrote:C) The RCVR and CD are both by Kenwood, and have similar mutually exclusive button usages. For example, the receiver remote is mainly power, volume, input selection; the cd player is mostly disc selection, track selection, and cd play controls. Any way to merge these two functions onto only one mapping of a remote selection, since this remote has more than enough buttons to do what I want?

It's possible that you could use the Device Combiner protocol to create an upgrade that combines the two devices. We'd need more specific info in order to answer this completely.

ToonGal wrote:D) I mapped out my components relatively well and was very thorough. Would someone like to take a look at them to see if they are the problem? Further, is there a way post-review to post them to the forum for others to use?

If you'd like one of the JP1 experts to look at your files, post them in the diagnostic area in the Yahoo JP1 group (link below sig) and post here that you've done so. Include a link to the file (read the sticky about Yahoo links). Once you've got things working, you can post your RM files for others to use in the Yahoo files area under the 4. RM Upgrade Files folder. You'll need to join the Yahoo JP1 group in order to gain access to the files area.

URC-8810w-040421a.ToonGal.zip posted in the diagnosis area here if I did the URL link right.

Thanks again for the help!