JP1 Remotes

I've uploaded the IRScope file for the four "Scene" buttons from my Yamaha HTR-5063 remote. They appear to use the same protocol that Rob and Vicky deciphered for the "Gap helper" upgrade. I would like help figuring out what the OBCs or EFCs would be for these four signals. Thanks!

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=8688

Yamaha has started using a variation of the Nec1 protocol to get some things like inputs to work. Yamaha calls these "custom codes".

These signals are decoding as Gap signals.

IRScope Summary wrote: 1 37786 Gap-605-1690-32? 122.133 127 Scene 1 button for Yamaha htr5063. Protocol appears to be the same one Rob worked out for his "gap no repeat: 7A.85.0.7F 0 33
2 37843 Gap-605-1697-32? 122.133 124 Scene 2 button for Yamaha htr5063. Protocol appears to be the same one Rob worked out for his "gap no repeat: 7A.85.3.7C 34 67
3 37834 Gap-604-1687-32? 122.133 121 Scene 3 button for Yamaha htr5063. Protocol appears to be the same one Rob worked out for his "gap no repeat: 7A.85.6.79 68 101
4 37771 Gap-605-1697-32? 122.133 118 Scene 4 button for Yamaha htr5063. Protocol appears to be the same one Rob worked out for his "gap no repeat: 7A.85.9.76 102 135

Getting the verbage out this would be
Scene 1 button for Yamaha htr5063. 7A.85.0.7F
Scene 2 button for Yamaha htr5063. 7A.85.3.7C
Scene 3 button for Yamaha htr5063. 7A.85.6.79
Scene 4 button for Yamaha htr5063. 7A.85.9.76

You will probably be adding these as keymoves in IR so you'll need the EFCs as well.

The generic way to translate OBC to EFC is to start to create an upgrade using KM or RM using the correct executor, then type in each OBC number (which in KM requires that first switch the functions sheet to OBC mode) then read the EFC number that KM or RM computes for you.

Since the Yamaha GAP helper isn't a standard protocol you'll need to start with an Upgrade that already uses the Yamaha Gap Helper like this one.
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7626

1)Change the device and subdevice to match your decodes.
2)Then fill in the OBCs from the third column of the information highlighted in bold, remember that number is in hexadecimal, so if it is a two digit number like 10, that is not ten, that is 16.

Since this will be used as a "helper device" you typically will not assign the functions to any buttons to conserve memory. The exception would be if you are using an oddball remote like the 6131 which doesn't do EFC style keymoves, so you need to have a keycode, or if you were going to assign this to an unused device.

As I said above these signals are a variation of the NEC1 protocol.
The Nec1 protocol looks like this.

NEC1
IRP notation: {38.4k,564}<1,-1|1,-3>(16,-8,D:8,S:8,F:8,~F:8,1,-78,(16,-4,1,-173)*)

In the case of the Yamaha Gap, the Complement of the function (~F) is only being shown in 7 bits, and one bit is always being set to 0.
If these were true nec1 the 0.7F would have been 0.FF

An extensive list of devices and all sorts of commands for Yamaha Equipment are available at Yamaha.uk

HTH

So in case you missed the bold chars in Vicky's post, here are the OBCs:

Scene 1 = 0
Scene 2 = 3
Scene 3 = 6
Scene 4 = 9

P.S. Jetstar52, I really had to dig through a long list of rambling posts (where I was just learning how to do protocol upgrades) to find this information. I used your post to for a place to quickly find the information. Thanks for giving this post such a nice title.

Thank you so much! I tried out the codes today and all are working. You are geniuses. In fact, had there been remotes in old Alfred Nobel's day, you'd be making annual trips to Oslo.

Is it possible to use this "gap protocol" along with the NEC1 protocol in Device Combiner, or must I use two separate upgrades and keymoves?

vickyg2003 wrote: Thanks for giving this post such a nice title.

I also considered titling it "Spiny Norman."

OK, I found another gap protocol, this one is 127.1 rather than 122.133. Plugging those values into the Gap Helper protocol yields nothing.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=8689

When I created my upgrade, it sent those same signals as expected.
So you created a second device, with the 127.1. You added that to yoru IR file.
When you added the second device upgrade, did you remember to change the setup code so that your keymoves are finding the correct device?

That would be the number 1 reason why this code does not work.

If that isn't it, we need to see your IR file and perhaps the upgrade.

It works. I had everything right except the OBCs. It remains a mystery to me where to find them in the IRScope data. Thank you again for your help.

Will device combiner protocol be able to use this gap protocol?

jetstar52 wrote:It works. I had everything right except the OBCs. It remains a mystery to me where to find them in the IRScope data. Thank you again for your help.

In the MISC column the third byte is the hexadecimal represetnation of the
obc. It need to be converted to decimal.

no repeat: 7F.1.58.27 fM
no repeat: 7F.1.55.2A AM
no repeat: 7F.1.5B.24 Preset up
no repeat: 7F.1.5E.21 Preset down
no repeat: 7F.1.61.1E Tuning up
no repeat: 7F.1.64.1B Tuning down

Will device combiner protocol be able to use this gap protocol?

Some device combiners don't like it when you have the the devices in the upgrade area. Some are okay with it. It all depends on the remote.

What are you trying to combine? Do all these different functions come from the same original remote? Rather than trying to mess with the Device Combiner, we'll probably need to make a custom protocol that mixes different device codes with the gap protocol and regular NEC signals.

You know a long time ago 3FG said this about our Yamaha Gap

3FG wrote:I suspect this situation is similar to one discussed here. It may not be obvious from that thread, but I believe it shows that some UEI executors, which we describe as NEC1 device 122 (in the above link, the behavior is shown for device 126) actually send a "Yamaha" protocol. Specifically, the setup code 1815 (a 4 DEV combo protocol) will send a signal that the Yamaha receiver understands-- but only if the executor itself calculates the second device byte. If instead RM/KM specifies the second device byte, then the executor sends ordinary NEC signals.

The 8910 is an older remote, so it may or may not have an executor with that behavior. But I would try setup code 1176 (NEC1, device 122) and keymove in the EFCs corresponding to the HDMI OBCs. I suspect that the learned OBC values are correct, since the learns are good. The idea here is to use a UEI written executor which, hopefully, knows about the "Yamaha" protocol.

He also provided a link to this site which gave all the links in an excel format that I couldn't open. This site had the discretes for the 6 series Recievers
http://www.soundtechmarketing.com/yamaha.htm

So he converted the whole thing into normal xls
These codes apply to the RX-V465, RX-V565, RX-V665 and RX-V765
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7548

There was also another spreadsheet with the discretes for the
RX-V1900 through RX-Z7 Receivers, but Dave didn't include that one in the zip above.

Vicky,
The passage you quoted above wasn't really correct, and for sure it doesn't apply to the "gap" protocol. The issue I was grappling with, and misunderstanding, is that RM uses a different behavior for NEC1 (005A) and NEC 4 Dev Combo (011A) executors. This relates entirely to the second byte of the device data, and whether the executor should use the fixed data value for the subdevice or compute the complement of the device number. I still think that the behavior of RM is wrong, but that's a different discussion.

The issue we're seeing now revolves around function numbers, and the traditional rule that the second byte be the complement of the first. It is analogous to what happened a long time ago with device numbers, which at one time followed a strict complement rule for the two bytes.

Yamaha is now sometimes breaking the complement rule for function numbers. The signals you have decoded all add to 127 instead of 255, but inspecting the Yamaha IR code sheets shows that Yamaha also sends IR signals that don't add to either 255 or 127. So, in general, it appears that Yamaha may use 2 bytes of independent information for the function data.

The 011A executor allows one to specify 3 bytes of independent data and one dependent byte within one IR signal: device, sub device, function number, and comp of function number. The fourth byte is the complement of the third.

For the Yamaha signals, as documented, there are also 3 bytes of independent data, but the second byte is the dependent byte (complement of the device number).

Our executors normally accept one or two bytes of input data. The 011A executor uses one byte to specify the function number, and the other byte is a control byte that chooses the device number from fixed data, sub device either from the fixed data or by complement, and also selects the NEC variant type (NEC1, NEC2, etc). I don't remember what the other two bits are used for, if anything.

If we write an executor specifically for Yamaha, it could take one byte of function number, and a control byte which selects device number and function total (255, 127, and some others). The executor would then always compute the complement of the device number, and would always send NEC1 style signals.

It's one way.....

I didn't understand it the first time around, but I do now. I went back to the original post and looked at what your EFC's were doing in that original post. Apparently the Yamaha needs 3 or Devices with no subdevice and then for the discretes there are a bunch of device/subdevice buttons. Do these receivers control the things plugged into them? Is that why it is so complex?

The Robman wrote:What are you trying to combine? Do all these different functions come from the same original remote? Rather than trying to mess with the Device Combiner, we'll probably need to make a custom protocol that mixes different device codes with the gap protocol and regular NEC signals.

Yes, the remote packaged with the HTR-5063 uses these three NEC1 protocols:

122
126
127.1

Along with these "gap" protocols you and Vicky helped me with:

122.133
127.1

Right now, I'm using NEC 4DEV Combo for the NEC1 commands, and two separate upgrades for the commands in the "gap" protocols. I've got a workable solution now, but combining everything into one upgrade would be great.

Yep, combining everything into one upgrade would be great.

<crickets chirping; tumbleweed bounces past>