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Testing Atlas 1056 Extender - help please
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 674
Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:35 am    Post subject: Testing Atlas 1056 Extender - help please Reply with quote

Hi

Given up unextended Atlas with only 5 devices and peculiar Device selection buttons (hard to get them to set inputs without flashing TV input each time when the TV device is employed with keymoves) so resorted to the extender, which looks excellent.

I have had the extender running Ok and First extender image to test Device Button Macros:- to set the Device buttons to issue, while setting up key sets, the InputTV and Hdmi1-4 TV input functions, which are assigned to TV device's 'buttonF1' and 'Phantom' 1-4 respectively.

All work to set the right Inputs and flash the TV device button, then the newly set device button as it acts, except the TV Device button which does not set the 'InputTv' input and weakly flashes only the AUD device button.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=11137

(I am still using my converted RCRP05B upgrades, converted for Atlas, including Vicky's customised 'macro friendly' TV upgrade, which originally had a special extra device with protocol (can't fit it into the unextended Atlas limited to 5 devices). It was to enable duration of function to be adjusted. This device has not been included in the extended Atlas image, because I don't know how to do it, so if you hear this Vicky, and if you think it may be the problem?)

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Testing Atlas 1056 Extender - help please Reply with quote

Hey Chris, FYI this type of post really belongs in the extender forum. Since most of us are JP1-junkies, we'll find them usually find them anywhere, but to re-find them, they reallly should be in the correct forum.

tranx wrote:
Hi

(I am still using my converted RCRP05B upgrades, converted for Atlas, including Vicky's customised 'macro friendly' TV upgrade, which originally had a special extra device with protocol (can't fit it into the unextended Atlas limited to 5 devices). It was to enable duration of function to be adjusted. This device has not been included in the extended Atlas image, because I don't know how to do it, so if you hear this Vicky, and if you think it may be the problem?)

Regards
Chris


So I suppose you said this just to entice me to look at a JP1.3 extender Laughing
since the upgrade was already included. The cause of this problem is not obvious at first glance, because it is not a user error.

The problem is the extender's RDF does not play well with RM and RMIR. All the Atlases had problems with the F1/F2/F3 keys. They were being parsed as hex. The base remote RDF's that are under control of the RDF Librarian have all had these "fixed" by changing the keynanes to something like "tunein1", "tunein2" and "tunein3". The extender RDF's are outside the control of the RDF Librarian, so these were not repaired.


The RDF needs repair, or you can use IR and then repair the keymoves for the F1, F2, and F3 keys. The "buttonF1" is not a vaild choice for either the macro or the keymove.....
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Vicky, but don't ya like extenders then Smile

I thought I got on allright with unextended RCRP05B but there is something peculiar about Atlas selection buttons, even in unextended form, which are hard to control while the TV one seems to work even when other devices are being operated, hence my tryout with the extender.

I think your explanation may mean that the macro on the device selection key should work if it tries to access InputTV function if it is put elsewhere, say on Tv's Phantom 5 key. I may have tried that but following your advice will have another go at it.

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
Thanks Vicky, but don't ya like extenders then Smile


I LOVE extenders. They are the reason I haunt the JP1 forum. Using one, made me acutally start writing them.. . .
And then I got a test file from ElizabethD, and I finally understood just how powerful extenders can be. Even though I had written, read that "aped", an extender, I had no clue. My first attempts looked similar to your current Atlas. Then the I tried to read Elizabeths's remote ir, and I found out what an extender could do in the hands of a "master".



I use IR and RM and KM, but don't use RMIR, so I don't have so many problems.

Quote:
I think your explanation may mean that the macro on the device selection key should work if it tries to access InputTV function if it is put elsewhere, say on Tv's Phantom 5 key. I may have tried that but following your advice will have another go at it.


Yep anyother key other than buttonF1 should make it okay.
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unclemiltie
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The extended Atlas is also limited to 5 devices, there wasn't much I could do about that one based on how UEI does device checking in the remote. I tried....


Why didn't you convert to the RCA RCRP05B extender? that one is actually a bit newer than the Atlas (but is a port of the Atlas extender). Then you wouldn't have to convert any upgrades!
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle, the RCRP05B is just fine without extender so far. Will certainly try the extender for that in due course thank you, but thought I would do the Atlas first to get some experience and in case something went wrong!

Putting InputTv on Phantom5 did not help but for some reason it does sort-of work on Tv device's PageDown.

Now, pressing the Tv select button puts Pvr Humax9300 into rewind before pressing it harder/again does the input change. For Foxsat Pvr it is the next channel which gets selected before the input switches.

I have uploaded another diagnosis file but from the info I wonder if this is just the stage it has been brought to so far. Are these familiar probs please?

Or, would using alternative buttons for device selection, perhaps those at the bottom of the remote, be likely to give better results?

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=11138

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
Putting InputTv on Phantom5 did not help but for some reason it does sort-of work on Tv device's PageDown.

Now, pressing the Tv select button puts Pvr Humax9300 into rewind before pressing it harder/again does the input change. For Foxsat Pvr it is the next channel which gets selected before the input switches.



I call your attention to this portion of the README

Quote:
KEY SETS:
=========

T = Rewind,Play,FastFWD,Stop,Pause,Record,Replay,Live
V = Vol+,Vol-,Mute
C = digits,Ch+,CH-,Enter,*,Last,Source,Fav
M = List,Up,Down,Left,Right,OK,Settings,Menu, Page+,Page-,Day+,Day-,Guide,Info,Exit
P = PIP on/off, PIP swap, PIP move, PIP Ch+, PIP Ch-
O = A,B,C,D,TuneIn1-3,Phantom keys,DiscreteOn/Off,Power,Setup
** The D and Menu keys are only available on the OCAP remotes


Your macro for the TV
TV = O_TV;PageDown;M_TV;P_TV;C_TV;V_AUD;T_TV

Since Pagedown is in the Menu group, you may often be in the wrong mode when you press the TV key.

If I get some time, I'll mock up a sample of how I would do this. but let me give you this hint.

1. Instead of having all the input selection devices in TV mode, put each input mode as a keymove on a PRESSABLE key in its own mode mode.
So
CBL F3 would be a keymove to your TV, HDMI1 input
TV F3 would be a keymove to your TV- Goto input
DVD F3 would be a keymove to your TV- HDMI3 input....


Now the F3 key can be a step in every Device macro. It's easy to understand and work with.

I personally would put the F3 then on the longside of an "LKP" at the endo fo the macro.

Why you might ask?

There are lots of reasons I may want to change modes on the remote, without changing inputs on the TV.

IE. At my house I might want to setup a DVR recording because an intense world series ballgame has run into my "lifetime" movie that I was going to be watching. If my TV macro automatically changed the input, I'd be afraid for my life. lol. Does that translate to British? Or is that only an American thing?
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, it seems my buttonF1 diagnosis, was a little off. It wasn't the old Atlas "F1, F2, F3 -decode as hex" bug, it was something else entirely. Thanks for setting me straight unclemiltie.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- forgot I had moved InputTv off the 'O' group of buttons Embarassed
Quote:
Now the F3 key can be a step in every Device macro. It's easy to understand and work with.

Very helpful thank you.

Quote:
IE. At my house I might want to setup a DVR recording because an intense world series ballgame has run into my "lifetime" movie that I was going to be watching. If my TV macro automatically changed the input, I'd be afraid for my life. lol. Does that translate to British? Or is that only an American thing?

Yes it translates perfectly. I have lately been getting a lot of stick due to changing Tv inputs back and forth with the Atlas Extender during the launch of the London Olympics Wink
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
...but let me give you this hint.

1. Instead of having all the input selection devices in TV mode, put each input mode as a keymove on a PRESSABLE key in its own mode mode.
So
CBL F3 would be a keymove to your TV, HDMI1 input
TV F3 would be a keymove to your TV- Goto input
DVD F3 would be a keymove to your TV- HDMI3 input....

Now the F3 key can be a step in every Device macro. It's easy to understand and work with...

It's nice that the extender works FAST, and that scheme works and looks much better, thank you very much!

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good.

Now you've got to pull yourself away from the 5 different remotes, and think of this as 5 different ACTIVITES. That typically involves setting Volume punch through, Transport Punch Through and if you have a set-top-box for tuning, a channel punch through.

Typically I don't ever do T_TV, because I want my Transport keys to be on my DVD player, or my DVR. I just let the last device with Transport keys, control the Play, Record, FFW, Rew, Stop.


Vicky's #1 rule is to have functions be pressable somehow. I use phantom keys for special function in macros. Now to be pressable, there has to be some way to get to it. As you can see, in the above scenerio, there would never be a way for me to get to the TV transport keys under normal usage.

In a macro you can set everything to TV or DVD temporarily, but the buttons that you stored there are not pressable outside the macro. So even though I alter the TV selection button to change the Transport keys, I typically have a version of the default courtesy macros available with some oddball keypress like Shift TV, Shift DVD.

--------------

You really have to think about how you use the system, in order to get a useable system wide remote control.

Get it right and you'll become an addict.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty to think about there and interesting #1 rule and about the T_Tv button group.

We equally watch recorded programmes from one of three Pvrs, or live Tv while other stuff is recording so one of the most useful buttons is equivalent to 'dash' to the left of 0 on the RCRP05B button layout, which is set to Tv's 'info' function to show the current Tv input at top left of the screen!

I also quite like the Sony RM-VLZ620 which has a good layout and 63 buttons and 8 devices with enough memory for a learned command on every button, which makes activities feasible too.

Have found that our two examples of the Atlas 1056 don't quite have enough IR signal strength for our setup, so am still playing with RCRP05B.

Regards
Chris
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
Have found that our two examples of the Atlas 1056 don't quite have enough IR signal strength for our setup, so am still playing with RCRP05B.

Hmm, the Atlases typically provide excellent signal coverage. The Atlas and the RCA both have dual ir emitters, and the signal is much more reliable than my the single emitter remotes like the 8811's that I use here. I find that the Atlas was really reliable, even in FL where I have so much sunlight that I can't even use my widget to capture a signal! Are you sure your batteries are functioning at full power? What is the condtion on the lense on the Atlas? Scratched, covered with protective film? Both Emitters firing?
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evidently Atlas serves very well and has an excellent layout which were the reasons for getting it, and don't want just to knock it. Incidentally I don't know if it is likely, but it also seems to use the memory efficiently. It's horses for courses Cool but, more accurately, for us 'signal strength' may not be the only problem, although some other remotes work just bouncing the signal, and the comparison is at least fair when exclusively using eneloop batteries.

The thing is that all our boxes are at low level and one even has to operate with the flap open because it shrouds the sensor. In similar fashion our versions of Atlas differ from most of the the other remotes because its bare emitters are protected within a pocket, with no break in its lower lip. I reckon it is probably this which helps to make it relatively ineffective, particularly when held beyond about 30 degrees from the horizontal...pity really so, in spite of what might be inside, I may try cutting away some of the offending plastic.


Re. your earlier advice about the need for an activity mindwarp, haven't got much further but see in the Extender readme's there is a change of emphasis Atlas vs. RCA in respect of temporary assignments:

e.g. Atlas:
'X_TV', which I undertood to include all the temporary TV device buttons.

cf. RCRP05B:
'Dev_Tv', which seems also to require precise button-group assignment, in which case the following 'set_C';'set_O', etc. would (exceptionally) be temporary just within that macro.
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unclemiltie
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The X_device (and T_device, etc) and the Dev_x are just different ways to accomplish the same thing. One, it turns out, is much more efficient in the number of keys that the extender writer has to define.

When I ported the Atlas extender to the RCA (and subsequently the Insignia) I switched over to the other style of HT setup because I was running out of key assignments.


The difference:

Let's assume you want to set up your system so that when you are using DVD you want Menu on the TV, Volume on the stereo and transport on the DVD.

On the Atlas you would:

M_TV, V_AUD, T_DVD


On the RCA you would:

Dev_TV, Set_M, Dev_Aud, Set_V, Dev_DVD, Set_T



The X_dev piece of code only sets a temporary device and that only lasts until the end of a macro is played. It's useful for changing one device set while you're doing a bunch of other things. But the T_dev and Set_dev commands set the device for that key set permanently (or at least until another one of those commands comes along)


BTW, I'm in the process of porting the RCA /Insignia code BACK to the other JP1.3 remotes. I finished up the coding a few months ago and haven't had a chance to actually load it up into my test remotes and make sure it works. The goal is to have them all behave the same


-bill
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