JP1 Remotes

jp1 · Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 8

Ok – perhaps I am totally missing something here but I am completely confused. I have the latest version of IR, KM, and RM. Using both KM and RM I load the same remote (Comcast URC-44000-B02) and the same upgrade (Scientific Atlanta 2000HD) and I get rather different results for the upgrade data. Both with different number of upgrade codes along with different positions of the codes themselves. I have uploaded a file to the diagnostic area named $A Discrepancy, its an Excel file.

I don’t wish to make this too long of a question but I was wondering if perhaps somebody could tell me if the following is correct.

A remote control has several predefined device tables, which contain function codes for specific equipment from different manufactures. Pressing a device button on a remote selects the appropriate table to use. Once the table has been chosen, pushing a button on the remote returns a number or index into that table. From there the EFC or OBC value is retrieved and sent out to the device.

If my understanding is correct not only is it important to have the correct EFC or OBC codes but you must have the placed in the proper order to match up with there corresponding button on the remote.

So here comes the real question – with the two programs KM and RM, how is the proper order of the codes matched up with the buttons on the remote. When looking at any of the programs IR, KM and RM the list of buttons seem to be in a special order but I can not tell what it is. Its not ordered alphabetically or numerically by function so how does one know what remote button links to which code?

Sorry for the length of the message, I have just found out about JP1 and I am very interested in how it all works so I can program my own toys. Thanks.

Mark Pierson

jp1 · Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 8

Thanks for the answer – its seems as if the mapping of the data is the more difficult job to accomplish. If KM has the details embedded is seems as if it would be the harder of the two to change. If I were interested in creating my own RDF file, could I change the mapping within the file and use RM to create my own update data with a new mapping. If so, what would need to be changed within the RDF file?

unclemiltie · Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

not trivial, it takes quite a bit of knowledge of how the remotes work.

There are two tables in the remotes that you have to "figure out"

the first is a table of valid keys for each device type. the table has a list of "keycodes" assigned to each device. You'll see the results of a detailed investigation in the RDF as a series of hex digits for each device type

The second table is used as a shortcut in the way that devices are described. This is called the "digit table" and describes the hex values that will be assigned to the digit keys. UEI does this to save space since there are a lot of remote codes that use the same values for the digit keys. The upgrades will use this if possible, if not the upgrade has to describe the values for all 10 digit keys.

Both of these are very difficult to figure out, it takes a lot of sleuth work to make it happen and is generally done by someone who really knows what they're doing.

Take a look at how the RDF is constructed, you'll see lots of data in there (the protocol table, the digits table, the device list, etc) unfortunately, you can't see this same data in KM since that data is embedded. It would be interesting to see how upgrades are formatted differently (and which one works)
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johnsfine · Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Mapping

jp1 · Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 8

I think I understand the concept of how the remote indexes into device tables to locate the proper code to send. My question is that the upgrade codes in KM and RM are used in a specific order, changing that order effectively changes the mapping of the buttons for the current upgrade. I just don’t know the specifics of how KM and RM line up the codes to match the buttons on the remote. Getting two different results from KM and RM along with the upgrade not working on my remote has got me interested in learning how this all works. Just like I am also not completely sure how the DigitMaps are used in the RDF files.

gfb107 · Expert Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 3411 Location: Cary, NC

It would actually be more helpful if you uploaded both your KM and RM files to the diagnosis area.

Which one of the upgrades works correctly when uploaded to a remote?

Note that in a remote there are different button maps for each device type. So you must create the upgrades in RM and KM using the same device type in order to be able to compare them.
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jp1 · Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 8

I pretty sure I have both KM and RM setup the same, save remote, same upgrade, same device. I have uploaded a file to the diagnosis area called $A Discrepancy. The problem is that I could not get either of the upgrades to work properly.

vickyg2003 · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:

Okay, I know you are a newbie, but do you realize how difficult you are being! 5 people have downloaded your $A file which tells us nothing. You are having trouble with the tools, and gfb107 is the author of RM and wants to make sure that its not "his" problem. But you are "pretty sure I have both KM and RM setup the same". So if you want help, upload the files!

As long as I'm at it, you said

jp1 · Joined: 18 May 2008 Posts: 8

Wow, I thought this was a forum where “There's no such thing as a stupid question”. I have been polite and respectful, I have said nothing mean or derogatory, I am simply asking questions and I get a message “do you realize how difficult you are being!”. What did I do wrong here. I was asked to upload a file to the diagnostic area which I did, and was never told that the file was not helpful from anybody. I would be more than happy to upload or send anything that I can to help. But I need to know that what I have sent was not sufficient. Without that information I have no way to know that my upload was not helpful.

I have tried both of the upgrades from both KM and RM, when I test the functionality of the new upgrades I can not get the guide button to work. Not being able to get the guide button to work, I have no way to really test the other buttons I am trying to get working like up arrow, down arrow, left arrow, right arrow, page up, page down. But I noticed that pushing any of the buttons mentioned above, the remotes led does not light when any of them are pushed.

Here are the two upgrades from both KM and RM and my question is why are the codes different between the two programs. Am I doing something wrong with the programs, there both have the same remote loaded, the same upgrade loaded and both are set to use the cable device.

Again I am not trying to do anything but to learn how to get my remote to work with my cable box.

Upgrade Code 0 = 05 C5 (Cable/1477) Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000HD (KM v9.12)
00 00 FE 6E CE E1 90 90 90 99 09 89 49 C9 29 A9
69 E9 19 06 85 F7 B9 79 E1 31 73 11 61 9F 37 41
D1 C1 21 6F 0F 8F F7 EF 31
KeyMoves
12 F3 05 C5 CF«play»¦09 F3 05 C5 A3«pause» ¦1A
F3 05 C5 97«rewind» ¦0A F3 05 C5 17«fast fwd»
¦11 F3 05 C5 2F«stop»¦19 F3 05 C5 AF«record»
End

Upgrade Code 0 = 05 C5 (Cable/1477) Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000HD (RM v1.86)
00 00 FE 56 CE 41 90 90 90 99 09 89 49 C9 29 A9
69 E9 19 06 85 F7 B9 79 E1 31 73 11 61 31 41 D1
C1 21 6F 0F 8F EF
KeyMoves
12 F3 05 C5 CF«play»¦
11 F3 05 C5 2F«stop»¦
1A F3 05 C5 97«rewind»¦
0A F3 05 C5 17«fast fwd»¦
19 F3 05 C5 AF«record»¦
09 F3 05 C5 A3«pause»
End

vickyg2003 · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject:

I'm sorry, I'm really grouchy today.

I was hoping you were going to post your KM and RM files in the diagnosis area with LINKs here. Maybe someone else can determine something from the output alone, but that's way over my head.

We know you are getting different output, but what's it doing to your equipment? Is either one working at all?

johnsfine · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject:

In case you aren't understanding what Vicky is asking for:

In KM (near the middle top of the setup sheet) there are LOAD and SAVE buttons. We are assuming you used the SAVE button to save your work in KM, rather than just copying out the upgrade code. That SAVE button produced a .txt file, which is one of the two files Vicky is requesting (in the diagnosis area).

In RM in the File menu, there is also a save choice, which creates a .rmdu file. That is the other one Vicky requested.

mdavej · Expert Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 4501

Try THIS upgrade. I'm doing a lot of guesswork here, but if you tried one of the other upgrade files that I did, it has major problems, RM/KM differences notwithstanding.

Evan_s · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 313

The upgrades from KM and RM aren't very useful in trying to figure out what is going on. They are using lots of remote specific information like the keymaps and such that no one is really going to know off hand. Please post the rmdu file from RM that you are using and the txt file from KM. That will let the experts look at how things are setup with out having to try to convert everything back to usable information.

I know it wasn't intentional but you have been making things a lot harder for anyone to figure out by just providing the upgrades generated rather than the files used to generate them.

mr_d_p_gumby · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject:

You should also upload a saved IR file, since you may have some problem there too.

Without the KM & RM saved files, it's not possible to see why the two upgrades are different. However, both look to be properly formatted upgrades, and in both cases the hex function code $0F (EFC 058) is assigned to the Guide button. Likewise, both upgrades have functions assigned to the arrow keys, so they should at least cause the LED to blink when pressed.

I also noticed that you've given the upgrade a setup code of 1477. IIRC, you can only enter 3-digit setup codes on this remote, if so, you must assign the upgrade to a device button within the IR program to get around this limitation.
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