JP1 Remotes

rickety · Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 101

My 15-1994 was christened last night and it went unnoticed till this morning (Merry Christmas!). Supposedly the liquid was just water.

There was no activity with any button presses.

I opened it and dried it off thoroughly, then re-assembled. It did not seem sticky at all, indicating that maybe "only water" was involved. When I upload my program to it, it will not work after the cable is disconnected. If, for example I leave the cable connected and press the Power button to activate the extender, it flashes as expected. If I try that after disconnecting the cable, when I press a button, there is a two second delay and then the light flashes.

An older 1994 will accept and work OK with the file I am using, so I am comfortable that the program is the correctly saved version.

Can anyone suggest any steps to diagnose further? I have also tried a 981 reset.

The Robman · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject:

It sounds like the remote is getting power from the JP1 cable when it's connected but not getting power otherwise. Maybe the water damaged the main power capacitor.
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rickety · Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 101

Thanks for the suggestion Rob. I presume that there is nothing that a non-techie can do to confirm or repair that?

I have been watching the forum from time to time, but it seems as though there is no "easy" replacement for an extended 1994. I have a USB cable (JP-1 style only) and use LKP and other features of the Extenders to make the system work to my satisfaction.

Any suggestions for JP-1 alternatives would be very welcome.

The Robman · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:

I'm not an electronics techie, so the capacitor thing is totally a guess, you'd need to get a 2nd opinion from someone more qualified than me to know for sure.

But, if that is all that's wrong with it, replacing it is pretty easy. Just read the numbers from the capcitor itself (it's the big component all by itself usually on the non-PCB side of the board) and get a replacement.
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rickety · Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 101

Well if anyone else is reading this - or in case it helps your understanding Rob Smile

the latest symptoms are as follows.

I have also experimented with a different program (the "downstairs" layout) which does not use an extender.

When I have uploaded this program, the device codes are all set properly and the defined button functions seem to work as expected. For example the "program guide button" correctly activates the program guide on our Starchoice receiver. However, the button that uses a macros does not work. There is no light when pressing them. The same occurs for any buttons that have keymoves.

Does this provide any further clues?

(Thanks so much for the advice you have been offering)

Rick

The Robman · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:

That certainly changes everything as it means your remote is getting power. I had intended to suggest checking the remote without the extender originally but decided against it.

There is only one version of the 15-1994, so in theory any IR image that works in one remote should work in another. I don't know what physical damage could cause just the extender to not work.
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Mark Pierson · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject:

Unless something got shorted out, it may just be a connectivity problem. You can try taking it apart again and gently wiping the PCB with a cotton swab and some rubbing alcohol, especially at the button contacts. Also, wipe the underside of each button (the little black pad).
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Evan_s · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 313

Is it just the specific buttons that are not working or is it actually the keymove or macro that make it not work? IE if you take a button that is working and add a keymove to that button does it still work or does it stop working?

Could this be related to the memory somehow? Maybe something is causing the the memory area used for macros and or keymoves to be unreadable?

rickety · Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 101

Thanks again for the ideas!

If I try a key (Surround) that is not directly programmed for my TV, Sat etc, there is no light, if however, I select CD then press surround the light flashes. That seems to indicate that the keypad connectors are OK.

If I try to manually program a keymove (994 technique) the remote behaves normally during programming (two flashes after pressing the button to be programmed with the from button code) but it does not show up on the download, nor does the keymove work. After doing the keymove, if it is to a button that is not active for the device, no light comes on when pushing it, if it is active, it responds with the "un moved" value.

That would seem to point to an issue reading memory, but where are the device types stored? When I do a hard reset (981) the Program Guide button for Cbl/Sat is inactive. If I upload my program, the Cbl/Sat setting of 869 is loaded and now the program guide works. Yet just the keymoves and macros seem to be non-functioning. Is there a more serious "reset" than 981 that I should have done? I have cleared memory with IR, but is there something else yet?

Rick

Evan_s · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 313

I'm not an expert at this by any means but from what I have gathered the different things are stored in different areas. A built in setup code is generally stored in the rom and not the flash portion which is why the low end jp1 remotes needed to have flash added to them for jp1 purposes. What actual code is entered is stored in the processors memory which is why it resets on those remotes if you pull the battery and press a button to drain the capacitor designed to keep the setup codes during a battery swap.

I would suspect the flash was dead but JP1 with the cable seems to work fine which would normally indicate it was fine. Maybe there are differences in the way jp1 and the processor in the remote read the flash and it still is the problem? If it was some how the cause it should be possible to remove the flash and replace it just like you can add the flash to one that is missing it.

An extender is roughly speaking a fancy macro that takes over control of the remote so I'm sure it also uses the flash memory a fair bit both to store it's codes and for other support things so I'd assume what ever is causing the keymoves not to work is also causing the extender not to work.

When you did the 981 reset did you get 4 flashes or 2 flashes? If I remember correctly 2 flashes would indicate it's not seeing the flash.

rickety · Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 101

Aha - Two flashes, then a pause, then a long flash.

Evan_s · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 313

ok that definitely sounds like a blown flash issue then. I'd suggest trying to replace the flash chip if your up to some soldering.

The Robman · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject:

The 15-1994 doesn't have a flash chip, it has an EEPROM chip which is usually labelled 24C16 or something like that. It's a very small chip with 8 pins (2 rows of 4).

If you are getting 2 short flashes and 1 long flash after a 981 reset, it's definitely a memory issue (ie, the EEPROM). Now, whether it just needs re-soldering or replacing I couldn't tell you.

To answer your earlier questions about why the remote is working at all, UEI remotes are designed to work without EEPROMs, in this case all the programming gets stored directly in the RAM. This is how a remote like the URC-6131 works even though it ships without an EEPROM.
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Capn Trips · Expert Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 3990

I suspect that Evan's simply using his own terminology, rather than the accepted JP1 speak. From his previous post, I believe he refers to the CPU as the "ROM" and the EEPROM as the "flash". Confused me, as well.
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Evan_s · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 313

Yeah I guess my terms were a little off but it lead to a diagnosis in the end =)

Never really messed around with the EEPROMs and such since I started with jp1.2 remotes which don't have that arrangement.

Good point about reseating the chip but given the water exposure fried definitely is a possibility.