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toughest pioneer remote yet?
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Carwarr



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 55
Location: Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:52 am    Post subject: toughest pioneer remote yet? Reply with quote

Ok men. So I read you guys can look at a LIRC file and figure out what protocol it is. (Visualizing you all sitting at a screen like in the Matrix and actually seeing people!!!)

Well here is the only info I have been able to find on the remote that I dont have that will control my LD-V8000.

What do you think??

Thanks
Mitch

#
# this config file was automatically generated
# using lirc-0.5.4 on Thu Aug 19 13:24:55 1999
#
# contributed by John Wohlers (jwohlers@mail.wcc.cc.il.us)
#
# brand: pioneer
# model: RU-V103
# supported devices: Pioneer LaserDisc Player LVD-2200
#

begin remote

name pioneer
bits 15
flags SPACE_ENC
eps 30
aeps 100

header 8682 4096
one 682 380
zero 682 1447
ptrail 682
pre_data_bits 16
pre_data 0xEA15
post_data_bits 1
post_data 0x0
gap 37624
repeat_bit 0

begin codes
reject 0x0000000000004BB4
pause 0x000000000000738C
play 0x0000000000000BF4
repeatmode 0x0000000000006E91
steprev 0x0000000000007A85
stepfwd 0x0000000000006A95
disp 0x0000000000001EE1
scanrev 0x0000000000003BC4
scanfwd 0x0000000000007B84
audio 0x00000000000043BC
speeddown 0x0000000000004EB1
speedup 0x0000000000000EF1
clear 0x0000000000002ED1
multirev 0x0000000000002AD5
multifwd 0x000000000000728D
7 0x0000000000000FF0
8 0x0000000000007788
9 0x00000000000037C8
4 0x0000000000006F90
5 0x0000000000002FD0
6 0x0000000000004FB0
1 0x0000000000003FC0
2 0x0000000000005FA0
3 0x0000000000001FE0
0 0x0000000000007F80
search 0x0000000000005EA1
chapframe-tracktime 0x0000000000001BE4
end codes

end remote
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4767
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: toughest pioneer remote yet? Reply with quote

Carwarr wrote:
So I read you guys can look at a LIRC file and figure out what protocol it is.


Since it's a Pioneer device, we don't need to figure out the Protocol. We can just assume it is the Pioneer protocol.

Carwarr wrote:

# brand: pioneer
# model: RU-V103
# supported devices: Pioneer LaserDisc Player LVD-2200


Carwarr wrote:

header 8682 4096
one 682 380
zero 682 1447
ptrail 682


The "one" and "zero" values are quite distorted for NEC or Pioneer protocol and nothing there would tell you whether it was NEC or Pioneer (if you didn't already know). But LIRC data is often captured that distorted compared to what a learning remote would capture. Also notice the arbitrary decision of which is which between "one" and "zero" is opposite of the way we do it.

Carwarr wrote:

pre_data_bits 16
pre_data 0xEA15


That's where they hide the device number. Since they reverse one and zero we want the second pair of hex digits 15, rather than EA. They also reverse bit sequence, so the 15 is really A8, which in decimal is 168, which is the device number.

Carwarr wrote:

post_data_bits 1
post_data 0x0


That annoying little item tells us that all the OBC values were between 0 and 127, so LIRC didn't recognise that the last bit was part of the data. So the place below where we would normally find the hex command will have a shifted hex command instead.

Carwarr wrote:

reject 0x0000000000004BB4
pause 0x000000000000738C
play 0x0000000000000BF4
repeatmode 0x0000000000006E91


If you aren't comfortable shifting and reversing hex numbers in your head, there is a two step process with RemoteMaster to get the right values.

Type the second to last digit pair (4B for reject) in the hex column in RM.
Notice the OBC value (45 for reject).
Retype the OBC as half of that (22 for reject).
The next few are
73 -> 49 -> 24
0B -> 47 -> 23
6E -> 137 -> 68

Good luck


Last edited by johnsfine on Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jamesgammel
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Location: Gillette, Wyoming

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may be wasting time with this. As noted, the remote learned from is the RU-V103, which is the remote for the LD-V2200(will also work 2000,and 4000). The remote for the LD-V6000, 6010,and 8000 is the RU-V113.
I'm assuming you don't have an oem remote? There are one or two other pioneer remotes that will also work the LD-V8000, one a bit better than the other.
I have the 6010A and close to a dozen 8000's. I did some preliminary searching for efc's as this is a crazily complex LD player. I can't recall that I ever actually made an upgrade for it, but I do have a pile of data someplace. I do recall that all the working efc's did fall from 000-127, except that digits repeated from 128>. If I don't have a KM file, I'll see if I can compile a notepad list of commands and all the data you need to make an upgrade. I did check the "103" remote with a unit and it didn't work worth a xxxx!.
All my data is in "paper" form so give me a little time to compile this. I'll post here when I have the data posted in "diagnosis". I know that it isn't complete because it is such a complex machine so i didn't get into all the crap concerning programming the silly thing. I do have at least enough to get the unit to play, etc, but not program all the silly features (it's easier to make a barcode and use the barcode reader to do that, using the remote to do it is a PITA!!)
Jim
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope I catch you in time. Do NOT attempt to use any remote codes for this machine until I get you the remote codes. There is one (maybe more) signals that WILL reset one of the two eeproms in this machine to default (all 0's), and the machine WILL NOT WORK (period!!). Internally, that eeprom has a MATRIX of switches. EVERY switch MUST be set right or the machine WILL NOT WORK. Believe me, you do not want to be in a situation where you have to reset those switches. This machine is not designed to be used by they typical home user, it's designed to be used as a professional tool for kareoke clubs and educational institutions as a teaching tool. Pioneer tech data (I've got a zip disk (100MB) full of their tech data and it's virtually useless for the typical home user to wade thru). Even knowing the right switch settings takes over a half hour to reset.
Jim
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you saying not to try random codes (looking for discretes, etc.) or you think there might be something wrong with the ordinary codes?

Most Pioneer LD devices (from many CCF files) use that same device 168. The play command (OBC 23) matches all of them. The Pause command (OBC 24) matches all of them. The "reject" command (OBC 22) is listed either as "stop" or as both "stop" and "eject" in all of them.

"RepeatMode" (OBC 79) isn't in any of the CCF files, so I assume this LD has a few commands beyond the typical Pioneer LD commands, but shouldn't the typical Pioneer commands be safe? (They might be easier to get with decodeCCF of any Pioneer LD CCF file, than by the method I described above.)

Edit: I had misread the Lirc hex for RepeatMode. The correct OBC is 68 and that is in the CCF files with various function names, including "repeat", "B/Mode", and "Side B".


Last edited by johnsfine on Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jamesgammel
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Location: Gillette, Wyoming

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, John, that's exactly what I'm saying. There are 2 or three efc's that will reset the switches in this thing. OFA says VCR_0059 will *maybe* get you one command, *possibly "power". A random efc search will no doubt hit one of those reset commands, and the player DOES NOT ask you to cofirm resetting the switches, it just does it, the TV screen goes blue, and you have to go into a special programming mode (manually) to get the on-screen menue to set the switches. One mis-set switch and the machine won't do anything, and the tech info does NOT tell you exactly how it has to be set. That Matrix is about 70 cells of data. Some of those are "safe" and the user can safely set the options (not many tho). I can't stress enough how dangerous it is to do a random efc search with this thing, and Pioneer is NO HELP in getting it reset. This player was discontinued in '94 and only one person there knows anything about this series of players and getting hold of HIM is like trying to get direct access to George Bush. This sucker is NOT set up like a home laser-disc player, it uses 2 eeproms for programming and was really designed to be programmed via RS-232 and ascii commands or barcode reader or encoded signals on the beginning area of the disc. First thing the player does is search the disc for programming ( when you close the tray). "playing" with efc's can also get you into program mode and that's really complex. Pioneer recommends programming only by a professionally trained programmer who's been thru their programming school. Many places that used to use these (large corporations and universities, and kareoke clubs) have dumped them because getting someone with programming knowledge have been out of jobs for years.
The LAST thing I would recommend to anyone with one of these is to do a random efc search. There, you've both been warned. Don't email me with "I did an efc search and now my player is dead, how do I reset the switches?" Believe me, you do not want to be in that situation.

Jim
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, there is NO power command, this player has a hard switch, not a soft. The only way to power it up is with the switch on the front of the unit. Safe user options include auto-start which will statrt the sequence1. close tray, search disk, return to beginning, then play. OR will search the disk got to beginning and stop, and wait for the play command from either the remote or front switch. Also which of the outputs for audio and stereo mode. If i recall correctly, the 103 "pause" does not "freeze" the pix, it puts the screen to "blue screen". There is a command which will "freeze" the pix. there's another which will "freeze" the pix, but continue the audio track. The "proper" remote for this is the RU-6000 or 6000T (touchpad). The 113 remote will work functions from all the buttons, but they are scrambled (except the digits).
Jim
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just decoded all the codes posted here using the method John described and have created a KM file for it: Pioneer_LaserDisc_LD-V8000.txt.

I noticed that the codes matched the official LD/0059 code that used to be very common in UEI remotes, and this code had additional EFCs listed, so my upgrade is a combination of the codes posted here and the ones found in LD/0059.
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
Are you saying not to try random codes (looking for discretes, etc.) or you think there might be something wrong with the ordinary codes?"


No, John. I'm not saying "OR", I'm saying AND. And I don't "think" there might be something wrong with the ordinary codes, I KNOW there's a LOT wrong with the ordinary codes.

**Most Pioneer LD devices (from many CCF files) use that same device 168.

That's right, unfortunately this player has one basic thing in common with those, it will operate using either nec-2, device 168, or Pioneer, device 168. The FIRMWARE is different than those other LD devices. The LD-V8000 was pioneer's top of the line professional LD machine. One model, NOT the 8000 will play both sides of the disc without manually flipping it over. Glad you used OBC, that's what my data uses.

The play command (OBC 23) matches all of them.
**Right, on the 8000 as well. OBC 023=EFC 122 and that's the play command

The Pause command (OBC 24) matches all of them.
**OBC 024 on the 8000 will put the machine in STOP mode, blue screen, and returns the laser head back to the "rest position". Once there, you can't resume play where you left off; ie by either re-hitting "your so-called pause" or PLAY. It's NOT a real "Pause" on this machine.

The "reject" command (OBC 22) is listed either as "stop" or as both "stop" and "eject" in all of them.

**OBC 022 = EFC 245 does NOTHING (unless it's part of the ascii programming crap)

"RepeatMode" (OBC 79) isn't in any of the CCF files, so I assume this LD has a few commands beyond the typical Pioneer LD commands, but shouldn't the typical Pioneer commands be safe? (They might be easier to get with decodeCCF of any Pioneer LD CCF file, than by the method I described above.)

**OBC 079 is another mystery. As to whether the typical pioneer commands being safe: I wouldn't bet the farm on that. I went thru the first 139 OBC's and hit THREE that reset the switches. it'S A ROYAL PITA to reset them. I already had enough to get basic functioning, and the player working the way I WANTED and STOPPED. Doing any more searches wasn't WORTH THE AGGRAVATION. I quit while I was ahead, or "IF it ain't broke, don't screw with it".
The player will repeat either chapters or the whole disc endlessley if you want. That wasn't a function I either needed or wanted and given the cost to find that function, for me it wasn't worth it. Same with the 2X,5X and 10X search speeds or scans. I just want to put in the disc, have it play from beginning to end, and pause if I need a potty break, then resume when I get back.


Edit: I had misread the Lirc hex for RepeatMode. The correct OBC is 68 and that is in the CCF files with various function names, including "repeat", "B/Mode", and "Side B".

**OBC 068 is a another mystery code.

"0" is OBC 000, AND OBC 128 on this machine.
Rob's EFC 000 isn't a digit, it's PLAY.

I spent WEEKS working with this damned machine getting enough aggravation to last a life-time. Figuring out the settings was 2 weeks alone. Then you and Rob come along and say Typical Pioneer Laser machines do......... This ISN'T a typical pioneer laser player. That said, all my files are back in the filing cabinet. My player works the way I want, and I have a remote that works it. And NO, I'm NOT gonna sit down and type a switch re-set tutorial, that would take at least 4 hours.

Jim
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamesgammel wrote:
I spent WEEKS working with this damned machine getting enough aggravation to last a life-time. Figuring out the settings was 2 weeks alone. Then you and Rob come along and say Typical Pioneer Laser machines do......... This ISN'T a typical pioneer laser player. That said, all my files are back in the filing cabinet. My player works the way I want, and I have a remote that works it. And NO, I'm NOT gonna sit down and type a switch re-set tutorial, that would take at least 4 hours. - Jim

So Jim, where are the KM upgrade files that should be the result of all that hard work, eh? If you'd done what everyone is expected to do, that being save your upgrades in the file section, this guy would have been able to just download them and there wouldn't have been any confusion.

John and myself are just reporting what we see, without having the devices ourselves. I don't have this device yet I created an upgrade, you Do have the device and you DIDN'T, go figure!
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Rob, you created an upgrade in spite of the warnings I tried to convey. What you neglected to include in that file was the disclaimers 1. It may not work, 2. use at your own risk. 3. There's a good possibility you'll hit a code that will make your machine WORTHLESS.

I said my files are in a file cabinet. I also said I never made an upgrade for the device. I also said that I only searched the first 139 OBC's and had already hit 3 damaging codes. I gave the only TWO codes I use a remote for (ok, just one, play). I set my machine up to auto play by closing the tray.

I said the functions listed for _0059 will not work. In spite of that you posted an upgrade supposedly for the 8000 (you labelled it as such) anyway. I repeatedly cautionaed AGAINST this and you did it anyway. That's fine and dandy when YOU dond't have to fix the poor guy's machine.

You've got a lot of nerve telling me what I have to do with MY equipment and time. I told you i QUIT screwing with efc's because of how dangerous that was and the PITA it involves when you do and hit a "bad" one. However, accoding to you, I should have continues with that nightmmare just so I could post a damned file. It's easy for YOU to say that because YOU don't have to suffer the consequences, but somehow, it's MY RESPONSIBILITY to go thru that crap.

I WAS going to post a file (NOT KM) with the SAFE commands I found that would work. Thanks to the arrogance of some non-machine owners, that's no longer on the table. There is no upgrade file for it, and I'M NOT gonna go thu the aggravation to make a complete one. I'm not so lazy that I can't get off my butt and push the buttons on the machine ( and that's just exactly what I normally do).

the project got put on hold concerning the rest of the efc's when I no longer had a TV to hook up to it. Neither you, nor john, nor anyone else except my wife will ever dictate IF or WHEN to ever finish that project. For ME it's a VERY LOW priority.

There was a bunch of commands that on the surface did NOTHING. However, that doesn't mean that they won't. I suspect a good number correlate with the ascii RS-232 codes, but that means you have to be in a certain menu item for that to kick in. Since there is NO DATA available from pioneer, that means months or years of work to iron them all out. How about YOU buy one and do that work instead if saying I'm supposed to.

JIM
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you enjoyed that rant Jim, because it was your last. Goodbye.
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Carwarr



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 55
Location: Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: toughest pioneer remote yet? Reply with quote

Here is a LONG post but with a great ending!


johnsfine wrote:
Since it's a Pioneer device, we don't need to figure out the Protocol. We can just assume it is the Pioneer protocol.

The "one" and "zero" values are quite distorted for NEC or Pioneer protocol and nothing there would tell you whether it was NEC or Pioneer (if you didn't already know). But LIRC data is often captured that distorted compared to what a learning remote would capture. Also notice the arbitrary decision of which is which between "one" and "zero" is opposite of the way we do it.

Thanks John, for telling me how to do it and not just giving me the info. I really want to learn this stuff and not just type in something and not know how it works.

jamesgammel wrote:
You may be wasting time with this. As noted, the remote learned from is the RU-V103, which is the remote for the LD-V2200(will also work 2000,and 4000). The remote for the LD-V6000, 6010,and 8000 is the RU-V113.

I think you might be incorrect about this. My manual for my Ld-V8000 says it works with the RU-V6000T and the RU-V103. It looks like the RU-V103 should work with the LD-V8000, LD-V2000, LD-V4000, LD-V2200, LD-V4200, CLD-V2600, CLD-V2400, CLD-V2800 and probably many more. The RU-V6000T has alot of extra buttons so you can actually program the LDP with the remote, like run/branch, clr/halt, and the like. It sounds like the CU-V113 is the remote that COMES with the CLD-V2400 and the CLD-V2600. But in the manual for these laser players, it says you can use the optional RU-V103 also. I don't know why you had problem controlling your 8000, but as you will see at the end of this LONG message, they should all be the same. Or maybe it was your 6010A that you tried it with but according to what I can see, the actual remote for that LDP is the RU-V6000 just like the 8000 uses. Who knows.

jamesgammel wrote:
I hope I catch you in time. Do NOT attempt to use any remote codes for this machine until I get you the remote codes. There is one (maybe more) signals that WILL reset one of the two eeproms in this machine to default (all 0's), and the machine WILL NOT WORK (period!!).

I am sure glad I posted this late and didn't get to check it until after work today, cause that is exactly what I would have tried to do. Go through and try all the EFC codes. If you do happen to dig up the info on what codes reset the machine and especially(sp?) how to program it back, I would love to see that. I bought this player cause of the incredible ability to program it and I know what you are talking about that it is not for the normal consumer market.

The Robman wrote:
I noticed that the codes matched the official LD/0059 code that used to be very common in UEI remotes, and this code had additional EFCs listed, so my upgrade is a combination of the codes posted here and the ones found in LD/0059.

Your kidding? So we(and by we, I mean you guys) go through all this work and you just put up the 0059 code??? What fun is in that!!! Very Happy
Anyway, that is the first code I tried to make this darn thing work! When I could not get my 2117 to take the 0059 code, I slapped a quick 0059 into my 8810 with play and a couple of other buttons on it and it did not work! Maybe I programmed it wrong. READ ON!

OK, so I get home from work, slap a CAV disc into my laser player and grab my 2117 remote. Select the AUX button and look at the display noticing that it says LPD and 0059. I push play. Excitement turns to sadness as nothing happens. Try pushing all kinds of other buttons, thinking that I am sure I will push one that does the eeprom reset in the LPD and then I will not have to worry about this problem anymore!!! Nothing. Grab my 8810 and program it with Robs codes that he labeled 8000. No Go. Double check that I actually programmed it right and cannot find any problem (I am new at this you know!!!)

Change the protocol to NEC2 like Jim mentioned. Programmed remote. Push Play. NOTHING! OK I am getting mad now!

Dig out manual for the player thinking about how I had it in programming mode hooked to my computer and thought maybe there was a setting to turn off the remote control! That would just be stupid though. AND what do I find??? Yes, you can hook up the remote with a control wire between the remote and the player and yes there is a setting in programming to select which one it uses. They will not work at the same time! Silly me, how about just putting a break contact phono jack on it so if the cable is plugged in, it disables the IR part!!! Thinking back..... "I am not an engineer. I am sure they had a good reason to do it that way and what the heck do I know!!! Hehe.

OK . Now where the heck did I put that special RS-232 to DB15 connector I had to build to interface this crazy LPD. And yes I said 15!!! Nowhere to be found. Maybe there is a way to get into programming from the front buttons. No, that would be silly. Read the manual! YES, hold down the display button and power up! Bingo, menu. Read the cryptic message about what buttons do what, get to the screen with Input select on it and see RCU selected. Move down to it and toggle. I get Serial. OK, what is RCU? Oh, remote control unit?? Darn, it was set right already! Well maybe they actually have it backwards! Select Serial. Exit programming, grab 2117.....Nothing! Enter programming again to make sure my changes took. It did. Toggle it back to RDU, hoping maybe it just needed to be toggled! NO GO!!!

OK now I am CHALLENGED!!! When I got this LDP in the mail, it was not packed too well and the top of the player was a little crushed in. But everything else works so what are the odds that only the IR is messed up! Well it is at the very top of the unit and who knows. Grab the screwdriver and remove the top. Remove the screws holding the top of the control panel on. CP still not coming off. Remove the bottom. Now it is coming off but need to get the tray out to get the front panel off. Spend 10 minutes trying to figure out how to remove it. Grab the small screwdriver and start prying. Thank Pioneer in the nicest words I can think of for hiding screws behind a panel attached with double sided tape. Remove front panel after carefully removing 2 small connectors so as not to rip a wire out of them. Turn over CP. AND what do my wondering eyes see? The part of the circuit board with the IR detector on it is cracked and almost falling off! Run out to the work bench! Excitement is setting in. Plug in the soldering iron. Now where the heck is that wire wrap wire to repair these traces with...... Look there, parts of the ribbon cable that I used to build my JP1 connector! It must be an OMEN! Grab soldering iron and solder and wire and then..... Light up another smoke to wait for the soldering iron to heat up after plugging it in but forgetting to turn it on! Repair the broken traces. Grab meter to test solder job "just to make sure".

Reassemble the LDP, wishing I had tiny fingers like the Japanese guy who must have put the 2 connectors on the front panel at the factory. My big fat fingers took about 5 minutes to get it back on properly. Hook the LDP back to my reciever. Power it up. Grab the 2117 remote. Push AUX and glance at the LCD to make sure it still says LDP and 0059. Take a deep breath and push play............. The disc spins up and Dragons Lair starts to play on my TV!!! Try several buttons and they all work great!!!

You guys are the greatest!!!

Thanks for reading my Story!

Mitch
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Carwarr



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 55
Location: Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Final ending to the ld-v8000 story.

So I was trying to find the rest of the codes for the extra buttons on the programming remote for this device. I hoped the "menu" button listed on other 0059 protocalls would work but no. Well, not being able to get into programming, I cannot find several other buttons that only work in programming so what was I to do? Well, I figured I knew this player well enough to get it working even if I hit one of those "bad" keys that "jamesgammel" talked about, so I started entering in EFC codes manually using the "shift key" and the 3 digit codes! Well, I got a little frustrated when I hit 127 that I heard mentioned that after that it repeated. But I was not sure if they were talking about the EFC or the OBC code, so I continued searching. Well I got to the efc 173 (OBC 192!) which was the program key. Then I had to start over again because I knew what the other odd keys would show when I was in programming. I got almost to EFC 254 and still had not found the STOP key. Guess where that was??? EFC 252! Bastards!

One thing about the stop key that is strange. It is used to enter the halt command in programming, and due to an error in the 8000's manual, I kept waiting to see it display "wait" on the screen when this key was pressed while in programming, but when I finally figured it out, it displays "w" only. Well there were about 50 other EFC's that also displayed "w" that could have been used for programming, but I wanted to find the official button. See, the strange thing about older Pioneer laser players that I have come across is this. The pause button pauses the playback but with the "squelch" screen (blue screen) and the stop button stops playback but with a freeze frame. Seems backwards to me!

So now I have fully duplicated the origional "Programming" remote for this beast.

Rob, I would like to make a suggestion. The file you uploaded to yahoo, rename that one to something like "older pioneer laser players" and then I will upload this perfect one called ld-v8000 with all the programming commands. Of course that one you put up works perfectly for all the basic commands on the 8000 as well as I am sure many other pioneer laser players. which will be all most people will need. But the whole reason I was trying to do this was to be able to program this LDP without having to plug it into my computer!

Thanks again for everyones help and I promise I will not post anymore LONG MESSAGES like this anymore. I was just so excited to be able to play around with these new remotes that I had to let everyone know.

Mitch
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