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Help with a Protocol
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:40 am    Post subject: Help with a Protocol Reply with quote

I have a cheap DVD player that I can find any type of codes for. I did a learn function on the DVD Menu Button to see if someone can help me. I use the 8910 with extender. I put the remote back to the stock configuration and did a learn function.

INFO:
DVD= Memorex (not sure of the model)
Protocol = Mitsubishi
Device = 86
Sub-Device = Blank
OBC = 85
Hex Cmd = 55
EFC = 104

Not sure If I have to load a new Protocol?

Thanks
MVH
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what you mean by "new Protocol". You certainly don't need what I would call a "new Protocol".

1) I just checked in RemoteMaster and it has no problem with Mitsubishi as a protocol choice with 8910 as the remote choice. It does not need a protocol upgrade.

So, assuming "Mitsubishi" is correct, it should be easy to create an upgrade for it.

2) I checked devices.xls plus my libraries of downloaded IR signals and did not find any Mitsubishi device 86, so you'll probably need to learn all the signals in batches to find all the OBC numbers and construct the device upgrade from that list of OBC numbers (rather than find the work mostly done for you already in some online source).

3) Note the DecodeIR documentation for Mitsubishi:
http://john.fine.home.comcast.net/~john.fine/ir/DecodeIr.html#Mitsubishi
It is not a "robust" protocol, meaning part or all of some signal in an unrelated protocol may look like a complete Mitsubishi signal. So I wouldn't trust a single decode. You apparently need to learn and decode the rest of the signals anyway. While doing that, you will discover whether Mitsubishi is the correct decode. If Mitsubishi is wrong, most of the signals will have some other protocol listed in addition to or instead of Mitsubishi. If Mitsubishi is correct, any signal that doesn't have Mitsubishi in its decode can be relearned more carefully and then will have Mitsubishi, plus many of the signals won't have any protocol listed other than Mitsubishi.
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks johnsfine,

I will do some more "key learning" tonight. So if I have this correct :

1) I will have to learn all buttons for the DVD remote?
2) Some of the buttons "may" have a different protocol?

Maybe "new" was the wrong word. Do I have to install the Mitsubishi protocol?

Thanks Again
MVH,
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mvh_2000 wrote:
1) I will have to learn all buttons for the DVD remote?


If there is an alternative to learning all the buttons, that alternative is likely harder to find than the effort of learning and decoding all the buttons.

mvh_2000 wrote:

2) Some of the buttons "may" have a different protocol?


If you get correct decodes, it is almost certain that all the correct decodes will be the same protocol.

Often the decoder lists more than one protocol for a single signal. Usually only one of those is correct and the rest should be ignored.

With a non "robust" protocol, such as Mitsubishi, you don't know from just one decode (which is all you posted so far) that the decode is correct. The correct code set could be something other than Mitsubishi and the first signal just happened to decode as Mitsubishi. If the correct code set is Mitsubishi, some of the signals might decode incorrectly as something else.

See what you get from learning all the signals. Maybe there won't be any incorrect decodes at all. Even if there are, likely the correct set will be obvious. If it is unclear then, ask again.

mvh_2000 wrote:

Maybe "new" was the wrong word. Do I have to install the Mitsubishi protocol?


You have to install just a device upgrade. The Mitsubishi protocol is built-in on the 8910.
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you point me to a "How to File" on a Device upgrade?

Thanks
Mike
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/help/
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark, I have added devices that someone else built, but this will be my first try at building one. That should keep me busy tonight.
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, After "learning" about 20 keys then reading the remote they all seem to be:

Protocol NEC
Device 0

Not sure how I got a Mitsubishi protocol the first time?

With this different protocol do I still have to build my own device?

Thanks
MVh
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the devices.xls spreadsheet, the 8910 contains 3 setup codes based on NEC1 device 0: DVD/0719, DVD/0720, and DVD/0721.
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help Mark, I hope I'm not asking to many questions?

All 3 of the codes worked, but the buttons and functions were mixed up.

I assuming the Protocol is correct then? NEC1

So I will have to build a device after all to get the EFC codes in the proper order for the keys?

MVH
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a LOT of different DVD player brands and models that all use NEC1 device 0, but use different arrangements of OBC numbers to functions, so the buttons and functions would be mixed up as you noticed.

We have a lot of upgrades already built for DVDs using NEC1, device 0. But even if one is a perfect match for you, it would likely be more effort to find it and test it than to rebuild it yourself.

Did you save the .ir file containing that first learned signal that decoded as Mitsubishi? NEC1 is not one of the protocols I would expect to misdecode as Mitsubishi. I'd like to take a look at the .ir file to see if it is a real Mitsubishi signal or an incorrect decode (I often can tell by looking at details that the decoder doesn't report). Please email that .ir file to me if you have it.
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent it.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mvh_2000 wrote:
I assuming the Protocol is correct then? NEC1
Since the buttons worked that would seem correct.

Quote:
So I will have to build a device after all to get the EFC codes in the proper order for the keys?
That's the easiest approach if you've already learned the commands.
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mvh_2000



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'm working on it.



Update

THANKS ALL,

It's working fine!!!!
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mvh_2000 wrote:
I sent it.


It isn't even distantly similar to Mitsubishi.

That's yet another thing I need to find time to fix in DecodeIr.dll

Your learn also isn't even distantly similar to NEC1.

I have a guess about what caused that bad learn. I think you pressed the button on the DVD remote a large fraction of a second (or more) before you started the 8910 learning.

With most IR protocols, pressing the original remote button too soon in learning gives you a slightly messed up learn, that probably works anyway and almost always can be decoded correctly. But with NEC1, pressing the original remote button too soon in learning gives you a worthless signal.

In addition, old or damaged batteries in the original remote often drop in voltage while the button is pressed and regain that voltage when rested in between presses. If the voltage goes low enough during the press, the end portion of the signal is garbled as the remote doesn't have high enough voltage to produce a correct signal.

A single frequency modulated IR receiver, such as that in the DVD player itself, can pick out the good parts from the signal garbled by low batteries and understand it anyway. But a learning remote able to receive a wide range of modulation frequencies will see garbage.

I think the trash signal you learned was due to the combination of pressing the DVD remote button too soon and having weak batteries in that remote. It shouldn't have decoded as anything.
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