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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: Find device given EFC |
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I had not been able to determine which device number my internet radio corresponds to; however, I have now just received my cable so I learned the 1 button on my 10820N remote and using IR.exe was able to determine that the learned 1 button corresponds to EFC 117 (if I am understanding this correctly).
Is there now some way I can search which devices use that EFC for button 1? If that narrowed it down to just a few I could try each of them.
Thanks. |
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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The EFC is dependent on a lot of things. When IR tells you the EFC, it calculates it for a certain protocol executor, but if a combo protocol is used, the EFC will actually be different.
However, you also got a protocol and device number.
Use the Lookup tool to see what setup code send that protocol. Do a search on the Manufacturer sorted by protocol, or a search on the Protocol.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: | The EFC is dependent on a lot of things. When IR tells you the EFC, it calculates it for a certain protocol executor, but if a combo protocol is used, the EFC will actually be different.
However, you also got a protocol and device number.
Use the Lookup tool to see what setup code send that protocol. Do a search on the Manufacturer sorted by protocol, or a search on the Protocol. |
IR.exe says its NEC1 and device 0. Unfortunately the Lookup Tool gives me several screenfuls of possible matches.
Regarding the brand name (which is C. Crane), it seems not to be in the Lookup Tool's database.
(The device number documented at http://logikir100.tripod.com/Vistron.htm for the Vistron mx-200i which visually looks pretty much identical to my radio does not work for my radio. I double checked that with C. Crane and they told me that my radio and the mx-200i do differ substantially despite external similarity.)
Is there a way that I can search all NEC1 device=0 listings from the lookup tool to see if any of them use EFC 117 for button 1 (or should I proceed in some other way) ?
Thanks. |
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| A. Black wrote: |
IR.exe says its NEC1 and device 0. Unfortunately the Lookup Tool gives me several screenfuls of possible matches.
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Yeah, Nec1 0 is kind of a catchall.
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Is there a way that I can search all NEC1 device=0 listings from the lookup tool to see if any of them use EFC 117 for button 1 (or should I proceed in some other way) ?
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If you didn't have a learning remote, we could work on this all day trying to figure out how to do this.
However you can do the learning in about 15 minutes and create an upgrade for the next guy who may not have a learning remote, or may not have the original remote.
I personally hate learning, because its difficult for me to think sideways, but if I have a helper I can usually learn a complete remote in one "975? session" That is you can keep learning key after key without having to do the long keypress setup thing.
So please read this Creating a better upgrade and have at it!
We'll look forward to your contribution!
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I will have a look at that page.
At the same time I am still wondering if there is some way to search the definitions and find out if any of them use EFC 117 for button 1? It still might be that there is a definition for another brand & model that is the same or similar to mine. Are the definitions all stored in a database? Are the EFCs in the database too? Can one download the database and perform the relevant SQL query? |
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mdavej
Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4501
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Once you get going, you can learn every command from your original remote in about a minute. It would take much more time and effort than that for Vicky to give you her database and for you to write a query. Your query would still find several matches, yielding not much useful info. So I recommend you bite the bullet and learn every command. Guess where nearly all of the thousands of upgrades and tens of thousands of codes on this site and vicky's database came from. That's right, learns. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| A. Black wrote: |
At the same time I am still wondering if there is some way to search the definitions and find out if any of them use EFC 117 for button 1? It still might be that there is a definition for another brand & model that is the same or similar to mine. Are the definitions all stored in a database? Are the EFCs in the database too? Can one download the database and perform the relevant SQL query? |
I probably should put together a query for power or volume buttons as these seem to be pretty stable across a setup code. However at this time there isn't a query written.
The number keys on Audio setup codes are a very UNreliable gage of an actual Audio upgrade. If you look at the Audio files in the lookup tool, you'll see several different possible EFC's for each number. When I was writing the lookup tool I thought I had something broken, but when I tested the individual remotes I found the keys did very by the vintage of the remote. Instead what I found was that the number keys in Audio Setups do such things as presets and input selections and the best choice for these keys has changed over time.
You could do a setup code search of your remote and see what pops, but that would only give you a generic upgrade. It would be better to create an upgrade from learns that has the correct labels for all the keys.
Take it from me, the database approach is not the best way to go about this. Its helpful if you don't have a working OEM remote and a learner, but you have both.
Even if you found what you are looking for in the database, its probably not in your remote, you still need to create the upgrade.
Bite the bullet, do the learns.
I found learning to be unusually difficult, because my husband usually refuses to operate the OEM remote for me, so I bought a Widget, but that is overkill if you only need one remote. I on the other hand use it all the time. I do lots of learns, and find the Widget very helpful in writing custom protocols.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: |
At the same time I am still wondering if there is some way to search the def
I found learning to be unusually difficult, because my husband usually refuses to operate the OEM remote for me, so I bought a Widget, but that is overkill if you only need one remote. I on the other hand use it all the time. I do lots of learns, and find the Widget very helpful in writing custom protocols. |
What is a Widget? I tried googling for remote widget but it brought up hits that don't seem related to remotes. Thanks. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| A. Black wrote: | | vickyg2003 wrote: |
At the same time I am still wondering if there is some way to search the def
I found learning to be unusually difficult, because my husband usually refuses to operate the OEM remote for me, so I bought a Widget, but that is overkill if you only need one remote. I on the other hand use it all the time. I do lots of learns, and find the Widget very helpful in writing custom protocols. |
What is a Widget? I tried googling for remote widget but it brought up hits that don't seem related to remotes. Thanks. |
Tommy Tyler sells them at his store
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9405
There are also plans somewhere around to make your own. If you google Kevin Timmerman and IR Widget you should find them somewhere.
The Widget is really nice if you can't do head to head learns, or if you are working with an un-learnable signal like the XMP.
I can't operate two remotes at once, its just mind boggling for me, other people seem to have absolutely no problem with it. With the widget press the capture button, and then point and shoot at the widget. Its so much easier for me. I was constantly putting off creating upgrades before I got the widget, because I found head to head learning. Now I think nothing of learning a remote. Its easy.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: | | A. Black wrote: | | What is a Widget? I tried googling for remote widget but it brought up hits that don't seem related to remotes. Thanks. |
Tommy Tyler sells them at his store
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9405
There are also plans somewhere around to make your own. If you google Kevin Timmerman and IR Widget you should find them somewhere.
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Thanks. Seems that "IR Widget" does get some hits via google although even that phrase missed the link you give above. As you indicate, in my case the cable should be sufficient. |
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underquark
Expert
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 874
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| For what it's worth, I once had occasion to create a small database of button codes and the only device I have listed on it that uses EFC 117 for Digit 1 is a Goodmans DVD player. Setup code is 1016. But NEC1, Dev0 is used in millions of devices, especially at the cheaper end of the market, and the permutations are, basically, endless. Very occasionally one device will use the same codes as another. |
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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| underquark wrote: | | For what it's worth, I once had occasion to create a small database of button codes and the only device I have listed on it that uses EFC 117 for Digit 1 is a Goodmans DVD player. Setup code is 1016. But NEC1, Dev0 is used in millions of devices, especially at the cheaper end of the market, and the permutations are, basically, endless. Very occasionally one device will use the same codes as another. |
I tried it but the remote does not blink twice after entering 1016 like its supposed to. Not sure why that is. I have been able to enter the 4 digit device for my stereo ok so I think I have the basic sequence down correctly. Anyways, I guess its back to learning each key on my radio.
Even though it did not work in my case it would be interesting if such a device/EFC database were made available.
Thanks for the info. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| A. Black wrote: | | underquark wrote: | | For what it's worth, I once had occasion to create a small database of button codes and the only device I have listed on it that uses EFC 117 for Digit 1 is a Goodmans DVD player. Setup code is 1016. But NEC1, Dev0 is used in millions of devices, especially at the cheaper end of the market, and the permutations are, basically, endless. Very occasionally one device will use the same codes as another. |
I tried it but the remote does not blink twice after entering 1016 like its supposed to. Not sure why that is. I have been able to enter the 4 digit device for my stereo ok so I think I have the basic sequence down correctly. Anyways, I guess its back to learning each key on my radio.
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Yeah, I think the 10820N has 42 Nec1 Dev 0 Setup codes, and the 1016 is not one of them.
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Even though it did not work in my case it would be interesting if such a device/EFC database were made available.
Thanks for the info. |
That's been on the back burner for a while. I've got other more interesting projects on my plate right now.
However if some one wants to lay out exactly what they want to input and what they want to see on the screen, I can work it in.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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A. Black
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: Understanding EFCs |
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I have just starting to use my new JP1.2/3 cable to figure out my internet radio.
I used the learning feature to (i) store Preset 1 button from my original remote in L1 on my URC-10820N and also to (ii) store Preset 2 on my original remote in L2 on the URC-10820N.
Downloading the remote data with IR.exe and looking on the IR learning tab it says that (i) L1 corresponds to EFC 117 (Protocol NEC1, device 0, OBC 16, Hex Cmd F7) and (ii) L2 corresponds to EFC 187 (Protocol NEC1, device 0, OBC 3, Hex Cmd 3F).
The problem is that SET 00117 and SET 00187 do not manually cause Preset 1 and Preset 2 to be activated although pressing L1 and L2 do.
I am able to manually run EFCs on my stereo so it appears that I do understand how to operate that function of the URC-10820N yet I can't get it to work with my internet radio.
Do EFC 117 and EFC 187 on the IR.exe screen not correspond to SET 00117 and SET 00187 ?
Thanks. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Understanding EFCs |
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| A. Black wrote: | I have just starting to use my new JP1.2/3 cable to figure out my internet radio.
I used the learning feature to (i) store Preset 1 button from my original remote in L1 on my URC-10820N and also to (ii) store Preset 2 on my original remote in L2 on the URC-10820N.
Downloading the remote data with IR.exe and looking on the IR learning tab it says that (i) L1 corresponds to EFC 117 (Protocol NEC1, device 0, OBC 16, Hex Cmd F7) and (ii) L2 corresponds to EFC 187 (Protocol NEC1, device 0, OBC 3, Hex Cmd 3F).
The problem is that SET 00117 and SET 00187 do not manually cause Preset 1 and Preset 2 to be activated although pressing L1 and L2 do.
I am able to manually run EFCs on my stereo so it appears that I do understand how to operate that function of the URC-10820N yet I can't get it to work with my internet radio.
Do EFC 117 and EFC 187 on the IR.exe screen not correspond to SET 00117 and SET 00187 ?
Thanks. |
In the simplest situation the EFC carries the OBC function of the signal.
An EFC will only work if you have selected a setup code that has the correct protocol executor, device, subdevice information.
So you need to find a setup code that sends a Nec1 0 format.
Using the Lookup tool you can find that information.
Audio 1257 is a Nec 1 0 code.
CD 1297 is another possibility.
Change the setup code on your Aud to 1257 and or your CD to 1297
Then use the EFC's.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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