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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Philips DVP620VR/17 - VCR/DVD combo unit |
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I've been reading the following thread where I think a guy named Fixup wants to create partial upgrades. All of the advice he was getting, was to learn every key on the OEM remote. He had a partially working code.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6011
I am working on a combo VCR\DVD, Philips DVP620VR/17. The partially working codes which I upgraded via phone are 1266 for the VCR, and 1267 for the DVD.
I copied the IR key maps for both to the clipboard, printed them out and entered the EFC's into KM. I also have the EFC's for the functions that are missing, and I entered those as well. I got the protocol and device numbers from a learned key.
I'm only working on the VCR right now. After making what I thought was a complete upgrade I copied it to IR and uploaded to the remote. Every thing worked except for the arrow keys. I then learned the arrow keys and they each had 3 EFC's.
Did I make a mistake by taking the EFC's from the IR key map? I have the EFC's from OFA and they are the same.
I'm using an URC8910. The link below is to the KM file. I no longer have it in IR, I went back to code 1266. Thanks, Jack
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3254 |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21237
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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The first step is to copy the EFCs from IR to KM as you have done. Then the next step is to set the correct protocol and device codes. I see that you are using the RC-5 protocol, which is a mini-combo protocol, so extra care is needed here. When you look at the 1266 and 1267 upgrades in IR, do they both use the $00E8 protocol? Also, what is the fixed data for each upgrade? This will tell us what device codes have been combined into the upgrades.
Before you start using learning to add additional functions, you should use the SWAP button to switch KM over to "OBC" mode, then enter the learned buttons using OBCs. Take care to also check what device code is shown for the learned signals. Also, if any of the OBCs are over 63 additional care is needed.
Rather than write up full details for all of the above, I'd rather wait to see what codes you're dealing with first.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks, The Robman. I'll follow up on all you said and post back with more info. Jack |
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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Learning VS IR Key Map copy, paste ,enter in KM? |
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| irs009 wrote: | | I copied the IR key maps for both to the clipboard, printed them out and entered the EFC's into KM. I also have the EFC's for the functions that are missing, and I entered those as well. I got the protocol and device numbers from a learned key. |
Almost correct, but because this is a mini combo protocol, you need to also worry about the sequence of the fixed data. That is controlled by the values in Device1, Device2 and Device3 of the Setup page of KM.
Based on VCR/1266 in your .ir file, Device1 must be 5, Device 2 must be 105, and Device 3 must be 4. After doing that to your upgrade the EFC numbers copied from VCR/1266 are correct.
| irs009 wrote: | | Every thing worked except for the arrow keys. |
That makes sense: The arrows are using the second device slot. In the second device slot the 105 means device number 5 with high OBC numbers (The 5 in the first device slot just covers device 5 with OBC numbers 0 to 63). But you put 4 in the second device slot in your KM file.
| irs009 wrote: | | I then learned the arrow keys and they each had 3 EFC's. |
Right again. Each command needs both an OBC number and a choice from the three device slots. The three EFC numbers in each decode correspond to the three device slots in KM's setup sheet. If the command uses the first device slot it needs the first EFC of the decode, etc.
| irs009 wrote: | | Did I make a mistake by taking the EFC's from the IR key map? |
That is a mistake only if you didn't intend to match the three device slots from the upgrade onto KM's setup sheet.
This is all a bit simpler in RM working with OBC numbers and direct view/selection of the device slots from the functions sheet. But it isn't too hard in KM once you have the concepts.
From learned signals:- Select up to three combinations of device number with whether OBC numbers are high or low (VCR/1266 has 5 low, 5 high and 4 low).
- Put those in any sequence in the three device slots.
- Select from the three EFC numbers of each decode based on which device slot it needs to use.
From an upgrade in IR:
Find out or guess/test the device slots until the fixed data matches, then just copy the EFCs. |
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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I think I understand, Johnsfine. I'll give it a try a little later this afternoon. Thank You, Jack |
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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi Johnsfine, Your advice worked like a charm as usual. What I still can't figure out is how you came up with the device codes. I have printed out your post and studied it, and it seems like getting them (device codes) from IR would be the easiest.
Is there a range of numbers that device codes belong in? I don't know where to start guessing the device codes for the DVD 1267 code. I'm not lazy, and don't expect you to do all of my work for me, I'm just having a tough time with this concept. I would be happy to study any material you might link me to.
As always, Thanks so much for your help and patience...Jack |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| irs009 wrote: | | I still can't figure out is how you came up with the device codes. |
I know the RC-5 protocol well enough that the series of device numbers was trivial for me to see, but not to explain.
An alternative (that I just now tested for the first time) is to use RemoteMaster and its Advanced/Import_Raw_upgrade command.
In the device tab of IR, select VCR/1266 and click Edit. That displays and selects the raw upgrade. Then type ^C to copy the raw upgrade to the clipboard.
In RM, select "Import Raw Upgrade", specify the remote and upgrade device type of the upgrade (8910 and VCR) then right-click paste into the Upgrade code area and click OK.
Greg's wonderful code then does everything I did in my head earlier in this thread and more. The Setup sheet and Functions sheet are all filled in from the raw upgrade.
I expect that feature covers a wider range of protocols than I could do manually.
| irs009 wrote: |
I don't know where to start guessing the device codes for the DVD 1267 code. |
Unfortunately, neither do I.
I don't recall what protocol 184 is.
I tried RM for that one and its understanding of protocol 184 does not seem to be consistent with the protocol upgrade in your .ir file.
What do the decoded signals look like? |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21237
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| irs009 wrote: | | Hi Johnsfine, Your advice worked like a charm as usual. What I still can't figure out is how you came up with the device codes. I have printed out your post and studied it, and it seems like getting them (device codes) from IR would be the easiest. |
Most devices use one protocol with one device code, so all you really need to get from the learned signals is the OBC (or EFC), but in this case you're using the RC5 protocol, and the UEI executor for this protocol is what we call a mini-combo. The UEI executor lets you combine 3 device codes where you only get 1/2 the range of OBCs. This is just the quirky way UEI implemented the protocol, it's not really a reflection of the protocol itself. Using KM, if you just enter (let's say) 5 as the device code, you can then program functions using OBCs 0 thru 63. But, if you also need to program some functions using OBCs 64 thru 127, you will need to enter a 2nd device code. This time, rather than entering 5, you would enter 105. When KM sees an RC5 device code of 100 or greater, it knows that what you really want is OBCs 64-127 and the device code to be used is the number entered minus 100. Given the limited UI that a spreadsheet offers, this was the only feasible way to implement this. (RM gives you a checkbox where you can state whether you want the upper or lower OBC range).
As for getting the device codes from the hex codes used for the fixed data, most experts know how to reverse engineer those, but the regular Joe doesn't (and shouldn't need to).
| irs009 wrote: | | Is there a range of numbers that device codes belong in? I don't know where to start guessing the device codes for the DVD 1267 code. I'm not lazy, and don't expect you to do all of my work for me, I'm just having a tough time with this concept. I would be happy to study any material you might link me to. |
The DVD/1267 code uses the $0184 protocol, which nobody's studied yet, so you should use the "Manual Settings" option in KM to program that one. Let me know if you need help with that.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, The Robman. Right now I'm going to make sure that the VCR is perfect before I try the DVD.
By the way, I tried your DVP 740 combo upgrades before I started my own...No go. You asked in that file for the discrete output codes for that combo. I'm not sure what you meant, but if it's VCR and DVD discrete, on my unit they are EFC 274 and 546 respectively. I got those from OFA. |
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gfb107
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | I tried RM for that one and its understanding of protocol 184 does not seem to be consistent with the protocol upgrade in your .ir file.
What do the decoded signals look like? |
You've uncovered a bug in the import raw upgrade code. RM was using it's own version of 0184, which is different that the version of 0184 installed on that remote. It wasn't even letting you provide the actual protocol code.
In particular, the fixed data length is different, which caused RM to decode the end of the fixed data as a hex command.
I'll have a fix up later today.
_________________
-- Greg
Original RemoteMaster developer
JP1 How-To's and Software Tools
The #1 Code Search FAQ and it's answer (PLEASE READ FIRST) |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| gfb107 wrote: |
I'll have a fix up later today. |
Let me see if I understand:
The 8910 has a PID 184
The protocol upgrade here is a more complicated (presumably super set) variant of 184, that was installed even though the 8910 has a 184, meaning that the two aren't actually compatible, or that this device needs a new feature of the more complicated, or (most likely) that UEI can't keep track of which obsolete PID variants are compatible with which current code sets (and the slightly greater per-remote-model variation in details of converting a generic code set to a remote specific upgrade).
RM doesn't let me paste in a protocol upgrade because it knows the 8910 already has a PID 184. You're going to change it let the user paste in a protocol upgrade anyway?
RM will then support some kind of manual mode entry of functions even though it can't know which bit fields are what in the two byte hex command? So the user still needs outside sources for the hex commands of any missing functions, but can manipulate button assignments etc. for the existing commands without outside help. |
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irs009
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm listening to all of this so don't think I don't appreciate your work. I have an RS-15-2146 that has these codes built in. I will post an IR file containing some learned codes in a few minutes...Jack |
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The Robman
Site Owner
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Posts: 21237
Location: Chicago, IL
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gfb107
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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You've got it.
RM will generate a manual protocol with one device parm for each byte of fixed data, and one cmd parm for each byte of cmd hex. There will not be any lsb or comp translation, and the mapping from parm to byte will be positional.
RM already does this for device upgrades that use a PID that RM doesn't recognize, so it really isn't much work to handle this case.
_________________
-- Greg
Original RemoteMaster developer
JP1 How-To's and Software Tools
The #1 Code Search FAQ and it's answer (PLEASE READ FIRST)
Last edited by gfb107 on Thu May 25, 2006 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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