JP1 Remotes

URC-9910B01 (Extended)

For the most part I think I'm getting the hang of JP1. However, there are a few bugs in my setup that I cannot seem to get ironed out.

a.) Missed key presses. When I press a button, sometimes the receiving device does not respond. It seems like I have to hold keys down longer than I did before I loaded the extender. Is this due to SKP/LKP/DKP protocols?

b.) Xshift. I cannot seem to generate an Xshift by hand. I have set the shift keycode to 2 and the alt shift keycode to 82. Alt shift == Xshift. I'm trying to use Xshift-1 -> Xshift-9 as varying levels of delay (via delay proto).

c.) Macros. The macro below seems to skip a step. It _might_ be due to problems with the delay proto.

DEV_TV
tv/vid (mapped to change input function)
1 (my DSS input)
XSHIFT-9 (pause of $FF)
guide (mapped to change screen size function) <-- skipped?
1 (wide cropped view) <-- skipped?
DEV_AUD
1 (select DSS input)
...

For one reason or another, both of those functions seem to be skipped. On very rare occasions, the screen size menu comes up but no change occurs.

d.) TOADTog. I have working TOADTog for my TV and SAT. I'm trying to work out how to create macros to turn on a bunch of devices and turn off a bunch of devices using these toggles. The macros below do not seem to work (devices do not shut off and toggles get desync'ed).

DEV_AUD
SET_OTHER_KEYS (since toadtog is keycode based, i presume this is required)
SHIFT-1 (toadtog based discrete on)
DEV_TV
SET_OTHER_KEYS
SHIFT-1 (toadtog based discrete on)
DEV_SAT
SET_OTHER_KEYS
SHIFT-1 (toadtog based discrete on)

The macro to power everything off is pretty much the same but uses toadtog based discrete off.

e.) Loopy remote. Somtimes when I hook up the JP1 interface cable, an LED to the left of my LCD illuminates. The remote seems to be locked up while in this state and will not take programming. I have to pull the batteries to correct the problem. For my own sanity, what exactly is happening here?

I suspect that in a number of these cases, I'm simply not understanding certain fundamentals and/or known quirks. Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Ian

a. possibly due to latency (commands for the remote only) before the timer in the protocol kicks in
b. in IR when you built those did you shift from the keyboard (wrong) or use Add/Insert shift/xshift(correct) ?
c. skips can be due to several timing issues for the equipment you use, some are notorious for needed longer signals. And/or checkout the KM or RM pause protocol to replace 8910's native $FF pause which is much too short for most needs.

During debugging, power toadtogs do get out of synch when a command fails. It's easier to debug if you get power out of your device macros and put it on another power-all button instead.

Post your IR file, someone might have a look.

What's the LED left of the LCD?

a.) I presumed the same.. the question is whether this is a known issue and if disabling the protocols will help.

b.) I know how to specify (x)shift while building macros in IR. The trouble is that I can't seem to generate an xshift with actual keypresses (i.e. set, set, 9 for xshift-9). This would help to debug my xshift based keymoves.

c.) Thanks. I'll try a different pause protocol.

d.) Regarding toadtog .. they work if I key them in. It's when I fire multiple toadtog back to back that they seem to fail. I didn't think pauses were required since I'm dealing with different devices. I'm not nesting power on/off in my device change macros (yet). I'm simply using L1 to turn on all the gear for DSS and L4 to power everything off.

e.) On a 9910 there is an LCD panel at the top. To the left of the panel, under the bezel, there is a (orange?) LED that illuminates when the remote goes wonky. I'm just curious what it's trying to tell me.

IR file posted in diagnosis area.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3102

Thank you,

Ian

I realized, as soon as I got in the car of course, that you do not put power on device buttons, sorry. Having just downloaded your file I haven't looked at it yet enough, so the below comments still go with your first post, other than I have a problem with "Power" for receiver - no discretes & no toadTogs? Remote doesn't care, but it invites out of synch situation, I would think.

In d.) Temporary devices get all keys assigned, so if this is a macro, listed down, Set_Other_Keys isn't needed, and likely interferes with subsequent functions you want to send to gear.
Try Dev_aud; shift-1; dev_sat; shift-1; dev_tv; shift-1, and this is a good place to tack on synchronizing input selections. This may not be the best example, but here goes my all-on job:

1. M1 macro= SHIFT-M1;DEV_DVD;SHIFT-1;SHIFT-1;DEV_VCR;SHIFT-1;DEV_TV;XSHIFT-M1
2. SHIFT-M1 macro= DEV_TV;SHIFT-1;SHIFT-Sleep;1;2;DEV_AUD;SHIFT-1
3. XSHIFT-M1 macro= M3;L4, where L4 gets correct input to TV, and M3 to the receiver.
Shift-M1 macro and M1 macro are one continuous stream, split because 13 steps is the limit.
Shift-1 are discrete or ToadTog power-on commands.

The default, or modified, phantom1, does the job of key selections when you press device keys and permits using common code for at least several device keys. Yuo might want to revert to that scheme, it'll save tons of bytes.

I see one thing: xshift setting in general tab needs to be decimal , so speaking perfect hex (82) won't do, just add 128

Thank you Elizabeth.

Ignore the receiver power. That's a seperate issue that I'm working on resolving .

I'll take the rest of this into consideration and post back with results.

I've updated the file in the troubleshooting area to reflect what I did last night.

a.) Missed key presses are something I just have to learn to deal with. I just hold buttons down a little longer than before. I may yank the The L/DKP junk to see if this helps... just haven't decided whether I'll actually have use for them at some point.

b.) Xshift was due to using hex instead of decimal

c.) RM's pause proto works much better

d.) Pulling all of the SET_OTHER_KEYS out of my toadtog macros fixed most problems. I found that my DSS receiver is just plain stupid and have to fire two Power toggle functions at it to get it to actually catch one of them. I solved this by adding another command to each toadtog for this device.

On a side note.. device lag is an interesting phenominon. I have two nearly identical macros that set my TV to a specific input and set the screen size. While the macro for my DSS input worked great, the one for DVD only worked 50% of the time. Apparently this has something to do with my TV taking a nap for about 2 seconds after switching to the DVD (component) inputs. Filling the DVD macro with a number of pauses ironed everything out. Interestingly, the DSS macro has _no_ pauses in it and works flawlessly.

impius wrote:a.) Missed key presses are something I just have to learn to deal with. I just hold buttons down a little longer than before. I may yank the The L/DKP junk to see if this helps... just haven't decided whether I'll actually have use for them at some point.

Learn - yes. Live with - please, no
1. Are missed presses still occuring? If so, which macro?
2. Since L/DKP protocol is not used (yet), no need to delete it. It does no harm at all, just sits there. You may later find it quite nice after the first construction phase.

impius wrote:d.) Pulling all of the SET_OTHER_KEYS out of my toadtog macros fixed most problems. I found that my DSS receiver is just plain stupid and have to fire two Power toggle functions at it to get it to actually catch one of them. I solved this by adding another command to each toadtog for this device.

3. I'd suggest to use shift-1;shift-1 in a macro, instead ,to guarantee ON. Doesn't the current double Power just toggle? I think I'm missing something Edited: This was a very bad idea

impius wrote:On a side note.. device lag is an interesting phenominon. I have two nearly identical macros that set my TV to a specific input and set the screen size. While the macro for my DSS input worked great, the one for DVD only worked 50% of the time. Apparently this has something to do with my TV taking a nap for about 2 seconds after switching to the DVD (component) inputs. Filling the DVD macro with a number of pauses ironed everything out. Interestingly, the DSS macro has _no_ pauses in it and works flawlessly.

4. The need for those long pauses AFTER you've already setup the TV puzzles me. But the only circumstances I've seen is to need pauses between commands to the same gear. You seem to need it after. Perhaps it's common. An expert is needed for this one. But do tell what models of TV and DVD you're coding.

impius wrote:On a 9910 there is an LCD panel at the top. To the left of the panel, under the bezel, there is a (orange?) LED that illuminates when the remote goes wonky. I'm just curious what it's trying to tell me.

5. Well, no orange light here. My remote is 9811B00. Close, I suppose, but not the same as 9910B01.

ElizabethD wrote:Learn - yes. Live with - please, no
1. Are missed presses still occuring? If so, which macro?

I just find that I have to hit a lot of keys twice before the device responds. My DSS receiver seems to be the worst (old JVC.. not sure about model). I have seen similar problems when using DVD as well so I'm trying to focus on the remote.

ElizabethD wrote:2. Since L/DKP protocol is not used (yet), no need to delete it. It does no harm at all, just sits there. You may later find it quite nice after the first construction phase.

Ok.. wasn't sure if it was doing something (starting a timer?) in the background to watch for the LKP/DKP and screwing up my normal (short) keypresses.

ElizabethD wrote:3. I'd suggest to use shift-1;shift-1 in a macro, instead ,to guarantee ON. Doesn't the current double Power just toggle? I think I'm missing something

If I shift-1 twice in a row, the command won't be sent as the toggle is already set. Sending the command twice as part of the toggle works just fine (only one extra byte per).

ElizabethD wrote:But do tell what models of TV and DVD you're coding.

TV is a Toshiba 64H84 . Receiver is Marantz SR-7000. The DVD bit doesn't matter as it's not really involved. Just the TV and receiver. As stated before, I think it's just a side effect of the TV doing some extra processing after I've selected that input.. maybe initializing stuff for progressive scan, etc.

Thanks again,

Ian

impius wrote:I just find that I have to hit a lot of keys twice before the device responds. My DSS receiver seems to be the worst (old JVC.. not sure about model)

If I understand your IR file, SAT button uses setup code 0775. That, according to Rob's devices.xls, is not a JVC protocol, but might be Dish Network. Also there doesn't seem to be a built in 0775 Setup Code in 9910. If it is a JVC, then in the Files section you'll find a protocol which increases duration of JVC signals, which has proven quite handy for several people, my DVD included. Or try Device Combiner protocol from KM or RM.

impius wrote:If I shift-1 twice in a row, the command won't be sent as the toggle is already set

OOOPS! Sorry for that one
But doesn't the double Power inside your ToadTog toggle? Is it really reliable? Here's another instance where a duration increase via Device Combiner might work for you instead, though at a cost of a large protocol.

Re: missing keys, few unreliable places - I'm not qualified to take this any further, so I hope someone jumps in to help you. Without any evidence, I wonder if some of your missing keys problems might be due to the one-button design. Have you tried unbundling the way the device keys work? By unbundling I mean to have, for instance, SAT button just select the
SAT to be able to operate it, and Shift-SAT (or LKP later on) for lining up related devices and synchronizing all inputs. Something along these lines:
> SAT macro = dev_SAT;phantom1 (or a custom phantom containing key sets which pertain to just SAT)
> shift-SAT macro = approximately what you now have on the SAT button synchronizing all the inputs, video and audio mode.
The same scheme for other devices. Thinking of the DVD macro, when you want to just change the DVD subtitles or something, the remote will be going through all the setup steps, which seems like lots of (slow) action.

I'm not saying you're coding incorrectly. It's just I never explored the one-button design. Whatever works for you is correct.
Perhaps someone who has done it this way will help you better.