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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: Friedrich Air Conditioner |
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I have an air conditioner which has a remote control. Regular buttons, like On/Off, learn fine on my 8811.
But there is a temperature up and down buttons which are strange. If I learn them, I get a gap and no EFC. The strange thing is that there is a temperature display on the remote. So I doubt that a simple up/down code is sent by IR. More likely, I think, is that there is a code for each temperature and there is a code for each.
So, if I hold a button down, the remote not only sends some signal but also advances the temperature on the display. I thought I could bypass this problem by only leaning the highest and lowest temperature signals and extrapolating the codes in between. But the learning didn't work for the up button when at the maximum temperature or for the down button at the minimum temperature.
Any ideas?
Thanks -- Vincent |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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What is the info from the buttons that learn OK?
Have you tried any of the gap OBCs to see if they do anything?
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | What is the info from the buttons that learn OK?
Have you tried any of the gap OBCs to see if they do anything? |
For example Power, which works, is:
Protocol: Fujitsu
Device: 16
Sub-Device:
OBC: 2
Hex Cmd: BF
EFC: 183
Misc:
The learned information is the same for both the Up key at the maximum temperature and the Down key at the minimum:
Protocol: Gap-424-1247-83?
Device: 20
Sub-Device: 99
OBC: 32
Hex Cmd:
EFC:
Misc: 14.63.0.10.FC.8.3...
Since they are the same, either the learning totally failed or my model of what is going on is all wrong. It's very hard to test a hypothetical EFC since whose to tell what temperature the air conditioner is striving to maintain? There is no display on the air conditioner -- only the remote. I could, I suppose, let the air conditioner run for an hour and see what temperature the room is, but that doesn't permit trying very many EFCs.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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For problem decodes, it is best to learn several sample signals and save them in a .ir file and upload that to the diagnosis area (and post its URL to a message in this forum).
From the decode you posted, I can make some guesses, but the original learned data might tell me more.
That gap decode you have is an extra long form of the Fujitsu protocol. My decode software recognises the normal Fujitsu protocol (which is quite long) and a second form that we've seen on occasion that is eight bits longer.
Your "gap" signal starts just like your Fujitsu signal, with encoding for the fact that it is Fujitsu and the device number 16. But it seems to be at least 32 bits longer than a normal Fujitsu signal. (Don't be confused by the device=20 in the gap decode. That generic portion of the decoder doesn't know the signal is Fujitsu, so it doesn't know which part of the signal is the device.)
I might be able to estimate better seeing the raw data, but from just the decode I suspect it is actually longer still. The 32 bits longer than normal Fujitsu me be the limit on how much an OFA remote can learn. The true signal is probably a long stream of data setting the entire state of the device to match the state remembered by the remote.
It would be tricky programming to get a JP1 remote to send that monster signal even if we knew what it should look like. You may need a better IR capture system to find out what the signal should look like. |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | For problem decodes, it is best to learn several sample signals and save them in a .ir file and upload that to the diagnosis area (and post its URL to a message in this forum).
From the decode you posted, I can make some guesses, but the original learned data might tell me more.
That gap decode you have is an extra long form of the Fujitsu protocol. My decode software recognises the normal Fujitsu protocol (which is quite long) and a second form that we've seen on occasion that is eight bits longer.
Your "gap" signal starts just like your Fujitsu signal, with encoding for the fact that it is Fujitsu and the device number 16. But it seems to be at least 32 bits longer than a normal Fujitsu signal. (Don't be confused by the device=20 in the gap decode. That generic portion of the decoder doesn't know the signal is Fujitsu, so it doesn't know which part of the signal is the device.)
I might be able to estimate better seeing the raw data, but from just the decode I suspect it is actually longer still. The 32 bits longer than normal Fujitsu me be the limit on how much an OFA remote can learn. The true signal is probably a long stream of data setting the entire state of the device to match the state remembered by the remote.
It would be tricky programming to get a JP1 remote to send that monster signal even if we knew what it should look like. You may need a better IR capture system to find out what the signal should look like. |
I gather that your guess is that the remote is sending much more state information than what seemed reasonable, given the function, to me. I saw no reason to send any more than one of about 15 temperature settings.
I have uploaded my IR file:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3008
Power is the good capture. 0 is the capture of Down at the minimum temperature. 9 is the capture of Up at the maximum.
I really appreciate the help -- Vincent
PS Does everyone agree with my logic that, given that the remote displays the temperature setting, that there might be two remotes and an assumption that communication is one way (remote to unit), the Up and Down button must be sending a temperature setting, not a code for Up/Down?
Last edited by Kruskal on Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | | You may need a better IR capture system to find out what the signal should look like. |
What might that better capture system be? Is there a chance that once I know the long signal that the 8811 could be programmed to send it even though it can't learn it?
Thanks -- Vincent |
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21237
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Friedrich Air Conditioner |
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| Kruskal wrote: | | Regular buttons, like On/Off, learn fine on my 8811. |
Are there other "regular" buttons apart from just the POWER button? In order for us to have the best chance of decoding these signals, we would need to see the largest sample of data possible, so if there are other buttons, please learn them and include them in the file.
Also, please state which learns actually work and which ones don't.
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Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Friedrich Air Conditioner |
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| The Robman wrote: | | Kruskal wrote: | | Regular buttons, like On/Off, learn fine on my 8811. |
Are there other "regular" buttons apart from just the POWER button? In order for us to have the best chance of decoding these signals, we would need to see the largest sample of data possible, so if there are other buttons, please learn them and include them in the file.
Also, please state which learns actually work and which ones don't. |
There aren't a lot of regular buttons. But I have added Swing and Swing Set assigned to the four cursor buttons.
Regular buttons work, Power, Swing Up, Swing Up Set, Swing Across and Swing Across Set.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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The regular buttons all decode normally. The '0' and '9' buttons are both extended versions of the normal signal. The two examples posted have a regular signal (with OBC 252) followed by 36 additional bits. The data in the 2nd to last byte is different between the two examples, where the '0' button has data "001" and the '9' button has data "111" in the middle of the additional string, which would tend to support your theory that these are MIN and MAX settings.
Of course, the fact that the 0 and 9 buttons don't actually work, means that we don't have enough info to write a new executor for this.
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johnsfine
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | The two examples posted have a regular signal (with OBC 252) followed by 36 additional bits. |
I only see 35 additional bits. I don't believe the number of extra bits would be a number not divisible by 8. So I'm confident these hit a limit on JP1 remote learning rather than the true size of the signal.
| The Robman wrote: | | Of course, the fact that the 0 and 9 buttons don't actually work |
Further confirming that we don't have the whole thing. |
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johnsfine
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Kruskal wrote: | | What might that better capture system be? |
The "captureIR" hardware and software discussed in a few threads here would do the job.
| Kruskal wrote: | | Is there a chance that once I know the long signal that the 8811 could be programmed to send it even though it can't learn it? |
An 8811 can be programmed to send the long signal. But I think only a few people would know how. I don't think you could get very far with the general purpose tools. I'm sure Rob could do it. I might even find the patience/time to look up the various things I've forgotten, so that I could do it.
It might be possible, with a LOT of tries, to capture the required info with an 8811 (though I think getting the captureIR hardware/software is a better idea).
To get it with an 8811, you would need to press the key on the original remote a tiny fraction of a second before the 8811 starts capturing. The signal you captured is a little over a tenth of a second long. If you managed to start a capture a twentieth of a second after the signal, you could get the second half of a normal capture followed by the next twentieth of a second. One would then match the pattern to align the overlapped parts and extend the known pattern.
If you want to try that, start by pressing the keys at the same time. The 8811 probably takes longer to start capturing than the other remote takes to start learning. Then adjust based on what learned signals you get to press the buttons almost at the same time. In "correct" learning you press a key to start the 8811 capturing then take a decent fraction of a second to get to the key to start the original remote sending. You'll need to discover whether you should reduce or eliminate or reverse that fraction of a second.
In IR's "Advanced" menu turn on the "Force Learned Timing" option so you can see what was really captured.
If you get a learn starting with a number exceeding +3000 followed by a number exceeding -1600, then you started the 8811 too soon (soon enough to catch the start of signal). If you get a lot of data and it starts with smaller numbers, you got a good (late capture). If you only get a little data, you probably started too late.
With several different late captures we probably can piece together the whole signal (but captureIR is better). |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | | I only see 35 additional bits. I don't believe the number of extra bits would be a number not divisible by 8. So I'm confident these hit a limit on JP1 remote learning rather than the true size of the signal. |
I agree that we don't have the whole signal. As for 35 vs. 36 bits, I guess that depends on whether you regard the last bit as a lead out pair or not. I was treating it as a bit only because I assumed there was more data to follow that we're not seeing.
Here's the binary as I see it...
leadin = +3312 -1672
leadout = +424 -????
0 = +424 -406
1 = +424 -1238
power
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 01000000
right
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 01011110
left
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 10011110
up
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 10110110
down
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00110110
'0'
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00111111
00010000 00001100 00000100 10000000 1001
'9'
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00111111
00010000 00001100 00000111 10000000 1001
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | '0'
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00111111
00010000 00001100 00000100 10000000 1001
'9'
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00111111
00010000 00001100 00000111 10000000 1001 |
I don't see the 0='001' and the 9='111' in there.
I'll try to capture the end of the signal as jognsfine suggested and get back.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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Capn Trips
Expert
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Kruskal wrote: | | The Robman wrote: | '0'
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00111111
00010000 00001100 00000100 10000000 1001
'9'
00101000 11000110 00000000 00001000 00001000 00111111
00010000 00001100 00000111 10000000 1001 |
I don't see the 0='001' and the 9='111' in there.
I'll try to capture the end of the signal as jognsfine suggested and get back.
Thanks -- Vincent |
Read the bold bits backwards.
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Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
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(But I still have to get up for my beer) |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Capn Trips wrote: | | Read the bold bits backwards. |
Backwards, of course. How silly of me 
How do I read the data I get from Force Learned Timings? It looks decimal. But it isn't a number per byte because the third number is not zero.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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