JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

I'm finding myself very confused here...?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Beginners
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
marc_paolo1



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: I'm finding myself very confused here...? Reply with quote

OK, now I have my cable working. I can download my programming to my PC now, this is good! I've read the document, JP1 for beginners, but maybe I missed something!

I have a URC 8910. While waiting for my cable to arrive, I programmed a lot of it manually, and it works pretty much like I like it, but I want to be able to back it up, and I want to be able to tweak it. Here are my questions:

1. In IR.exe, where can you actually program the buttons of the remote to do things? Is this only done through the KM spreadsheet? In other words, I see where you set up the devices, the key moves, and even the macros and learned commands. But is there a way to program the functions of the other buttons on the remote (such as VOL UP, PLAY, REC, etc.)?

2. Kind of the same question in a different way: I don't yet want to create a new upgrade, I just want a graphical interface to program my remote. Can I do this with IR only, or do I neeed KM spreadsheet + IR? If so, what is the relationship? Which files do I transfer between the two tools?

3. In KM.xls, do you need a separate spreadsheet to program each device? From looking at it, that's what I gather, but I'm a little confused.

4. Is it possible with the '8910 to use the FAV and COMM SKIP buttons as regular buttons without any special functionality? I thought this could be done with an extender, but reading about the extender, it might be more than I need.

Thanks so much...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
underquark
Expert


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 872
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1]You program the buttons in KM or RM. You copy the upgrade data to IR and IR packages everything together so that you can send it to the remote. IR can also allow you to create macros and KeyMoves. IR also, of course, reads from the remote.

2]For the "graphical interface" I think you want RM - Remote Master.. You'll alsp need to install Java (see the readme file).

3]KM can only do one upgrade at a time. You can't open another upgrade in the same spreadsheet. You can , however, copy KM (call it "KM second instance" or whatever) and open this second spreadsheet at the same time as KM. Main use for this would be if you wanted to open an upgrade and then create a new one based upon it but still have the original to flick back to for reference.

4]The FAV and COM SKIP buttons were designed as special "features" but - IMHO - are more or less useless. You need to use the extender if you want t o play with them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gfb107
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3402
Location: Cary, NC

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm finding myself very confused here...? Reply with quote

marc_paolo1 wrote:
1. In IR.exe, where can you actually program the buttons of the remote to do things? Is this only done through the KM spreadsheet? In other words, I see where you set up the devices, the key moves, and even the macros and learned commands. But is there a way to program the functions of the other buttons on the remote (such as VOL UP, PLAY, REC, etc.)?

2. Kind of the same question in a different way: I don't yet want to create a new upgrade, I just want a graphical interface to program my remote. Can I do this with IR only, or do I neeed KM spreadsheet + IR? If so, what is the relationship? Which files do I transfer between the two tools?
It depends. If you have basic control of your devices through a builtin setup code, then you change the behavior of individual buttons using keymoves. If there are no builtin setup codes that control one (or more) of your devices, then you need to use a KM (or RM) device upgrade to add support for that device. When editing/creating a device upgrade, you can assign the desired function to just about any button you please.
Quote:
3. In KM.xls, do you need a separate spreadsheet to program each device? From looking at it, that's what I gather, but I'm a little confused.
Yes, KM (and RM) are device upgrade editors. You copy the created device upgrade code (and protocol upgrade code if needed) from KM/RM to IR, and then upload to the remote using IR.
Quote:
4. Is it possible with the '8910 to use the FAV and COMM SKIP buttons as regular buttons without any special functionality? I thought this could be done with an extender, but reading about the extender, it might be more than I need.
Using the extender isn't as big of a deal as you might think. It certainly makes your remote more versatile.
_________________
-- Greg
Original RemoteMaster developer
JP1 How-To's and Software Tools
The #1 Code Search FAQ and it's answer (PLEASE READ FIRST)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
bevhoward



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a couple ways to view the "graphic" question. Here's my understanding;

With the "built in" codes, the keys are fixed and are not mapped or shown in IR and there is no direct way to map them.

There are, however a large number of "upgrades" in the download section that have been designed as better button layouts for built in codes. Loading these into KM allows you to view a table of the button layouts as well as redesigning them to meet your own needs.

In my case, the difficulty was less how the buttons were arranged but rather trying to remember enough about the button layouts to effectively use them with seven devices in a single remote. I my case, some devices use built in codes and some use KM upgrades.

Eventually I put together my own printable copies of the layouts in an html file which has been a great help to me and my wife to really put the programmable remote to it's best use... see

http://bevhoward.com/stuff/Cinema6.html

At the bottom of this page is a sample template (bright yellow) that can be used as a starting point to build your own 8910 reference.

Hope this helps,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marc_paolo1



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, BEVHOWARD, you spent a LOT of time on that. Very nice. We'll see if I get to that point. My wife already thinks I'm nuts...

I have another question.

As I said, I downloaded my remote to IR. Now, if I want to manipulate it in either KM.xls or Remote Master, which file do I take OUT of IR and put IN to KM.xls and/or Remote Master?

That's where I'm not getting it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19065
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marc_paolo1 wrote:
As I said, I downloaded my remote to IR. Now, if I want to manipulate it in either KM.xls or Remote Master, which file do I take OUT of IR and put IN to KM.xls and/or Remote Master?

You don't. You use KM or RM to format upgrades which you then copy over to IR.

See if this helps...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/help/
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
classicsat



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't, at least not directly. You can use leaned data and/or keymoves to make an upgrade.

KM/RM can make one device upgrade at a time. Its graphical function is limited to configuring an upgrade to a remote.

With IR (by tab), you can:
(read write to file, up/download to/from remote)
Program devices (either built in or upgrades)
assignd device type to device key, set VPT and HT modes.

Keymoves:
Assign an alternat function to a key.

Macro:
Assign a sequence of key presses to a key.

Other tabs allow you to install device and protocol upgrades, and read learned signals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marc_paolo1



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, folks. I think I get what you are saying.

One last question...why would I want to change a protocol? Is that purely for controlling a device that needs a special protocol, or is there some other benefit to changing a protocol?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19065
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marc_paolo1 wrote:
One last question...why would I want to change a protocol?

You need to keep in mind that KM and RM are not only used to customize existing upgrade files, they are also used to create the upgrades in the first place. Given that not all devices use the same protocol, we figured that the user should be given the option of selecting the correct protocol.

Now in your case, assuming that you are working with upgrade files that other people have created, you have no need to change anything other than the selected remote and the button assignments.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
johnsfine
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marc_paolo1 wrote:
why would I want to change a protocol?


In some cases there is more than one protocol choice in KM or RM that can generate the same set of signals. Typically those differ in what kind of additional signals could be combined into the same upgrade (varying subdevice etc.).

In theory (meaning I haven't read this whole thread to see whether this could apply in your case), you may find (by decoding learned signals or in a CCF or LIRC file, etc.) that your device has some command(s) outside the range of those in some mostly correct upgrade you find. You might then discover that there is another protocol choice that is a wider or better combo and supports the original upgrade plus the extra signals. So you might find yourself wanting to change the protocol choice on an existing upgrade.

But, as Rob said, choosing the protocol is most often done when you create a new upgrade, not when you edit an existing upgrade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
underquark
Expert


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 872
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marc_paolo1 wrote:
why would I want to change a protocol?

johnsfine wrote:
In some cases there is more than one protocol choice in KM or RM that can generate the same set of signals. Typically those differ in what kind of additional signals could be combined into the same upgrade (varying subdevice etc.).
One example would be a Panasonic television that uses the original setup code 0250. This uses the Panasonic protocol. Some models of Panasonic televisions are the same TV but have Teletext facilities. Here you might find that 0250 works the TV but not the Teletext. The correct setup code turns out to be 0650. On decoding 0650 you will find that it is a Panasonic Combo protocol - similar but not exactly the same.

Another would be a device that I have - a UK terrestrial digital receiver. Protocol RC-5 generates many of the signals necessary to operate it but not all of them. To do that I need to use the StreamZap protocol which is similar - but not identical - to RC-5.

In both these cases, the second protocol is a superset of the first in terms of signals generated. Upgrades are often made to fine-tune the control of a device or to add features not present in the original preset codes and, as such, sometimes need more complex protocols (otherwise everybody would just use the original setup codes).

So in these cases you might take the OBC codes, change the protocol and then add in the new codes as necessary. Some will be straight-forward codes and others will be more complex requiring a second byte of data (typically for a different subdevice number). The more complex protocol is required to handle the additional functions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bevhoward



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As everyone has clarified, the codes already in the remote can't be (easily) extracted.

The key point that I would make is that, in addition to the hundreds of codes "pre-built-in" to your remote, there are hundreds(??) in the download section here.

In addition to "uprades" for devices released after your universal remote was put into production, I have found a number of "improved" button layouts for the built-in codes in the files here.

The advantage of starting with codes from the library is that while they can (relatively) easily be uploaded to your remote, they are fairly easy to customize if you find the need.

Thanks for the praise for the template page... would also appreciate additional JP1 newbie feedback for the draft newbie help page at;

http://bevhoward.com/stuff/Newbie.htm

which was put together from the viewpoint of a very lost jp1 beginner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marc_paolo1



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks for the praise for the template page... would also appreciate additional JP1 newbie feedback for the draft newbie help page at;

http://bevhoward.com/stuff/Newbie.htm

which was put together from the viewpoint of a very lost jp1 beginner.


Well, so far it looks very good. I'll print it out and test it real time. But it looks to be very helpful and simple enough to get started. I'll provide some more detailed feedback for you soon.

On a personal note, you two seem like a pretty neat pair. I gather you are in Austin, TX. I live up here in Dallas. We (my wife and I) love to visit Austin, it is one of our favorite places. But, I digress...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19065
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bevhoward wrote:
in addition to the hundreds of codes "pre-built-in" to your remote, there are hundreds(??) in the download section here.

1,643 to be precise! Smile
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
underquark
Expert


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 872
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the estimated total number of UEI setup codes (e.g. TV/0001, SAT 0001...DVD/2039)?. I have downloaded a few .WAV files from the European One-For-All site and just wondered how far one would have to go if you wanted to capture all the codes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Beginners All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central