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JP1 or Pronto
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robertmyhtpc



Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: JP1 or Pronto Reply with quote

This may be a silly question to some, but I am compelled to ask.

I purchased the Microsoft Remote (JBL) which was my first pc programmable remote. It was cool, but did not work great. I am sure the pronto is the same, only better. Honestly I have not tried it.

So, I have been playing with JP1 for the past 6 months. Unbelievable!! It does everything I want on remote controls that are $30 bucks. (15-2116 and HT Pro) More important than the cost, is ease and range of these remotes. Using macros on the device keys, it is so simple!

The question is, what are all these 200-500 dollar remotes all about.

thanks
Robert
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people don't believe they're getting a $300 product unless they actually pay $300, so even though you can do everything with your $20 remote that a Pronto user can do, he can walk away saying that he has a $300 remote whereas you just have a $20 remote. To each their own!
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Capn Trips
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3977

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
... you can do everything with your $20 remote that a Pronto user can do...
Yeah, but can the Pronto user do everything the JP1 user can? I think not! He/She HAS TO LOOK AT HIS/HER REMOTE TO USE IT! Not the (non-Kameleon) JP1 user! Twisted Evil
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Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-704.
Streaming: Intel NUC PC
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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GaryH



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a lot of people pay for the ease of use. I've seriously considered doing this myself. It ain't that easy to learn all the JP1 stuff, especially with the extenders. Things get rather complex rather quickly. To complicate matters, my HT setup is pretty stable, as is my 2104 setup. I only hook the remote up to the computer about 2 or 3 times a year and, quite honestly, I forget half the JP1 stuff and end up having to relearn it when I want to change the remote or add a new component.

Some of the more expensive remotes apparently make this whole process easier and if the price of those remotes was more like twice the price of a JP1 remote, instead of the current 10X price, I'd probably make the move myself.

Also, a lot of people probably can't, or don't have the desire to, learn all the nuances of JP1 and extenders. It's quite daunting and I can't say I blame them. If I weren't a cheap SOB I'd feel the same way. Wink

Anyway, it does get easier when you learn all the great tools and documentation all the folks here have written, but I do sympathize with the $100+ remote folks. Course I've never used one of those so maybe they're just as complex? The argument is over if that's the case.
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Capn Trips
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaryH wrote:
maybe they're just as complex? The argument is over if that's the case.
I've never used one of those either. But if you look at the HUNDREDS of pronto files over at RemoteCentral, and the screencaps of how they're set up, I'm convinced that the average Pronto owner spends no less (and likely MORE) time programming and laying out his remote as the average JP1 user. Dont know where the Home Theater Master and Harmony remotes fall on this scale, but at least they have hard buttons. No matter how easy the Pronto may be, YOU STILL HAVE TO LOOK AT IT, while I never look at my 1994, 2117 or HTPro.

Game over, in my book.
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Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-704.
Streaming: Intel NUC PC
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pronto is easily as complicated as a JP1 remote and then some. The MX-500 is simpler because it's just a learning remote with no PC interface, unless you include the hacked IRClone feature, but then you're back into JP1 territory. From what I hear though, the Harmony does make things simple for the non-techie user, but you certainly pay for that simplicity.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used the software for JP1, Pronto, and MX-850. Not one of them is what I would consider user friendly.

RM is quite user friendly for the task that it does. IR is also user friendly for the task it does. But the division between them can be quite unfriendly (not so much the extra step of copy/paste to move things over, as the limits it places on other aspects).

Reading these forums, I see a common view that ProntoEdit is more beginner friendly than JP1. I think that is nonsense. I think that impression is actually due to the cost difference. While people may think they are choosing to pay more in order to get a simpler to use product, when they actually get the product they tolerate a higher level of effort required for an expensive product than they do for an inexpensive one. JP1 doesn't take more effort than Pronto. A JP1 beginner is just more likely to decide it is too much effort than a Pronto beginner.

The MX-850 software is seriously less beginner friendly than either. I can't see how a beginner can use it at all. I don't think a beginner is supposed to. It is oriented solidly toward the market of hiring an expert to do the programming for you. (Where Prontos are only partially oriented toward that market).

The real option of paying a lot more for simplicity consists of paying a LOT more and having a professional do the work for you.

The apparent option of paying more for an easier to program product is an illusion.

However, all that overlooks the factor of learning to use the remote once it's programmed. If you program your own remote, you have a big head start on learning to use it. But how do your wife, baby sitter, and other users of your system learn? A Pronto or even an MX-850 can be way simpler than a JP1 remote for first time users, even if they aren't simpler for first time set up.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 75
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Touch Screen Remotes are NO substitute for Buttons! Reply with quote

I have OmniREmote for my Palm Pilot and for sure there are things you can do--custom design your own layout, more complex macros**....etc BUT
I would NEVER replace my Rat Shack 2117 with ANY kind of Touchscreen remote. Capn Trips speaks the truth and it's not a minor point. I know every button on my 2117 in the dark by touch without even looking--try that on a Pronto.

**As an example--I have a Sony 400DVD changer that loses all it's programming in a prolonged power loss. It could take literally hours to reprogram everything. Not a problem anymore. I have ALL the programming coded into macros on my Palm. I just put in fresh batteries, aim the Palm at the Sony and press Go.....Then I go have dinner or something. 'Hour or so later the Palm has reprogrammed the whole Kit N' Cabootle. Couldn't do that on any Universal Remote.

But my bottom line is that JP1 fits my need to a T!
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underquark
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 873
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
But how do your wife, baby sitter, and other users of your system learn? A Pronto or even an MX-850 can be way simpler than a JP1 remote for first time users, even if they aren't simpler for first time set up.


Capn Trips wrote:
Yeah, but can the Pronto user do everything the JP1 user can? I think not! He/She HAS TO LOOK AT HIS/HER REMOTE TO USE IT! Not the (non-Kameleon) JP1 user! Twisted Evil


Wife and 7-yr old boy manage my Kameleon URC8040 fine. 5-yr old boy too lazy. 1-yr old girl not interesed because it's blue. I don't think touch-screen or hard buttons is too much of an issue as your fingers "learn" where they need to go. The illuminated icons on the Kameleon showing which device or button is selected are a plus for kids as far as I'm concerned. Main issue for me is that I picked up 6 "universal" remotes (4 JP1ers - 8040, 7562, 7552, 8910 and 2xUET609 non-JP1s) for a fraction of the cost of a Pronto or any other "high-end" remote. With the change from what I would have spent on a Pronto I purchased a DVD recorder and a twin-tuner PVR Smile .

By all means buy a Rolls Royce but I'd rather stick with my ordinary car and own a house too.
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egalus



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 week ago I myself was thinking about getting a pronto cause I didn't know about JP1 and was not able operate both my Amps with my nonlearning URC-7541 s.

I looked at all the touchscreen remotes and thankfully that evening I again was using my OFA blindely and it, as always, worked like a charm and I was sure, no touchscreen remote for me Wink

Next day I stumbled over JP1 (first the yahoo group and than this site) and now I am sure I will never move from button remotes to touchscreen remotes as long as I can get OFAs with at least as many keys as my 7541 has (I think the layout is almost perfect, I would just add seperate record/stop keys instead of making them two of the four coloured keys and would either add a menu key next to the navigate buttons or change mute/menu buttons (like I do atm, which is quite funny when friends try to mute and just open a menu Wink ).
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first started getting into remotes, which was before the JP1 effort started, I decided that I wanted the ability to capture an IR signal and see what it looked like and at the time the only way to do that was to get a Pronto, so I shelled out about $275 and bought the TS1000. This Pronto is permanently wired to my PC for the sole purpose of capturing IR signals, I've never used it as a remote. Along the way, I have also been given a Sony AV2100 and a Harmony, but have never been tempted to use any of these as a replacement to my 15-1994.

So it's not even a question of Rolls Royce vs. Chevvy, it's a question of which is the best remote for the job and with a Pronto, Harmony AV2100 and 15-1994 available, I pick the 15-1994.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 75
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah Rob---ever faithful to that 15-1994! Smile Well when you're right you're right.
The 15-1994 was my first REAL remote control. I have about 6 of 'em, about 6 more 15-1995's, and 4 15-2117's. They all have a similar enough layout to be mutually "consistent" and it's a good layout.

Like you I have a virtual museum of Universal Remotes--(well I have but a subset of your collection) BUT I've not found another layout I prefer to the Rat Shack "original". I still have a 15-1994 sitting out and ready to do active duty--although I'd be hard pressed to remember what it does anymore 8)

I figure I have enough of these JP1 remotes to see me through my lifetime even if JP1.2 never happens Wink


Last edited by streetskater on Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

streetskater wrote:
I figure I have enough of these JP1 remotes to see me through my lifetime even if JP1.2 never happens Wink

I'm totally covered for myself also, but I do worry about the rest of the world once JP1 dies if JP1.2 doesn't get worked out.
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nadegda



Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, do any of those high priced remotes do toadtogs? Or any other way of remembering the state of device? I just got to it now and it's one of the most wonderful features of JP1.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the Harmony remembers the state of your devices.
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