JP1 Remotes

1. Device: Pioneer DVR-531H
2. Type of device: HDD/DVD Recorder
3. JP1 Remote model: URC-8780
4. JP1 user? Yes
5. Still have original remote? Yes
6. Checked the file section? Yes
7. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes
8. Partially working setup code? No
9. Learning remote question? My JP1 remote can learn the OEM codes but ir.exe doesn't display a "Learned Signals" tab when I download the data. (note: only the L1—L4 keys on a URC-8780 will accept learned codes)

Notes:

I downloaded and tried the Pioneer DVR-520H codes contained in the following thread Codes for Pioneer DVR-520HS (DVD Recorder) using KM with no luck. The code uploads to my remote just fine, but it doesn't work — with or without the Pioneer MIX protocol adjustment suggested by The Robman within that thread!

From what I found digging around the net, the issue seems to be that Pioneer switched remotes for their DVR-531H family of recorders (DVR-531H, 532H, 533H & 633H) Remote Cental shows the DVR-520H uses a VXX2910 remote; mine uses a VXX2967.

Just FYI, the URC-8780 remote is a scalled down version of the URC-8800 "Producer 8" remote. While this remote does have learning, it stores the learned data on a second EEPROM which is not connected to the main JP1 EEPROM.

Also, you don't need to edit the data (as was described in the other thread). The URC-8780 is so old that it doesn't have any version of the Pioneer MIX protocol installed (the edit was because the 6131 had a new, at the time undocumented, version of the protocol). The 8780 just has the standard Pioneer DVD protocol installed, so you would need to copy over the protocol upgrade which should have been presented to you by KM. (If you didn't copy a protocol upgrade, that might be the problem).

Option 1
If you're handly with a soldering iron, I wrote up a hack which enables you to read the learned data from your URC-8780 using a JP1 cable. This would enable you to determine the code data used by the DVR-531H.

Option 2
Buy a more modern JP1 learning remote and use that to decode the learned signals.

Option 3
Send your remote back to UEI and have them install an upgrade. Then when you get it back, we'll reverse engineer it and create a regular upgrade file for you.

Option 4
See if you can find another JP1-er who;s willing to capture the signals for you, and send your Pioneer remote to him/her.

Thanks for the reply and, yes, I did upload the new protocol as KM specified! Since my first post, I've discovered the problem is the remotes use "slightly" different code (see my BTW comment below)

After reviewing your list of options, I decided on…

Option 2.5

While digging thru my collection of old remotes, I discovered I have an even "older" JP1 remote (URC-7800) that has "normal" learning capability (i.e. everything stored on the same EEPROM) so…

After soldiering a JP1 connector onto the board, I've begun downloading the various codes from my DVR-531H remote (a real PITA as the URC-7800 can only learn 12 keys at a time) and building an upgrade using KM. Note: I'll post a complete list of all the codes I get later so no one else has to go thru the same hassle.

So far, the codes I've gotten are a mix of 2 types. Some are standard 1-part codes using Device 171 and various OBCs while others are 2-part codes with the 1st part always being Device 171 OBC 44 and the 2nd part Device 175 with various different OBCs. I can get the standard 1-part codes to work with my URC-8780 by using the "Pioneer" protocol to generate an upgrade or the 2 part codes to work using the "Pioneer DVD" protocol to generate the upgrade but I can't figure out how to create a single upgrade combining both versions.

I'm new to JP1 programming and realize KM has some other Pioneer protocols available but, from their description in the instructions and how they appear in KM when selected, none of them really seem to fit the pattern I need (i.e. a version of the DVD protocol where the second byte could be set to specific whether a particular function is a 1-part code or a 2-part code) Of course I'm probably misunderstanding how it works and one of the other protocols does exactly this??

BTW, while a lot of the "functions" have the same OBC (there were a few differences like menu being 176 instead of 185), the DVR-520H code I tired before use Device 171 OBC 42 for the 1st part of it's 2-part codes and my remote uses Device 171 OBC 44 — which explains why it didn't work for me. I tried simply changing 42 to 44 for that code but it still didn't work!

Big Al wrote:So far, the codes I've gotten are a mix of 2 types. Some are standard 1-part codes using Device 171 and various OBCs while others are 2-part codes with the 1st part always being Device 171 OBC 44 and the 2nd part Device 175 with various different OBCs. I can get the standard 1-part codes to work with my URC-8780 by using the "Pioneer" protocol to generate an upgrade or the 2 part codes to work using the "Pioneer DVD" protocol to generate the upgrade but I can't figure out how to create a single upgrade combining both versions.

You want to use the Pioneer MIX protocol. Be sure to read the notes on the Protocol Help sheet.

What I do when I'm learning a remote like this, is learn all the standard buttons first (ie, buttons that have an obvious counterpart on the URC-7800) and as the remote fills up each time, download and save the IR file, delete all learned signals, then keep learning. When you get to the more tricky buttons (ie, ANGLE, TITLE, etc, etc) start with a fresh file, then just learn the buttons in the order they appear on the OEM remote. You can learn them to any button you like, but I use the numeric buttons for this. Then, when the remote is full, download it and add a comment to each learned signal stating what the original button it, then save the file.

Once you've learned all the buttons, then start the upgrade, and like Mark said, you want the "Pioneer MIX" protocol.

Houston, we have a problem!!

I successfully captured all the OEM remote codes and created a KM upgrade using the Pioneer MIX protocol as suggested (after I "understood" what I was actually reading in the Protocol Help section ) but only 44% of it works! (23 out of 52 total commands)

First off, here's a complete list of all the codes from my OEM remote shown in Protocol:Device:OBC fashion and sorted by code type. BTW, turns out 80% of these "were" the same as the codes for the DVR-520H but my initial attempt to use that code didn't work for the reason shown below.

Single Device Codes (KM functions byte2 = 0)
Pioneer:171:032 Stop
Pioneer:171:033 Stop Rec
Pioneer:171:034 Play
Pioneer:171:035 Pause
Pioneer:171:036 Fwd Scan
Pioneer:171:037 Rev Scan
Pioneer:171:038 Next
Pioneer:171:039 Prev
Pioneer:171:040 Rec

Type 1 Dual Device Codes (KM functions byte2 = 1)
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:054 One Touch Copy
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:060 TV Guide
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:061 Info
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:100 HDD
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:101 DVD
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:102 unmarked (green +)
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:105 Timer Rec
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:107 Rec Mode
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:110 CH+
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:111 CH-
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:121 Help
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:172 CM Back (-30sec)
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:173 CM Skip (+30sec)
Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:174 Input Select

Type 2 Dual Device Codes (KM functions byte2 = 3)
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:054 Subtitle
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:099 Left Arrow
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:100 Right Arrow
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:127 Play Mode
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:160 0
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:161 1
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:162 2
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:163 3
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:164 4
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:165 5
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:166 6
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:167 7
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:168 8
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:169 9
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:176 Home Menu
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:180 Top Menu - Disc Navigator
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:181 Angle
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:182 Open/Close
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:183 Step/Slow (Fwd)
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:184 Step/Slow (Rev)
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:185 Menu
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:188 Standby/On (Power)
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:190 Audio
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:227 Display
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:229 Clear
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:239 Enter
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:242 Up Arrow
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:243 Down Arrow
Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:244 Return

All the Single Device and Type 1 Dual Device codes worked just fine but none of the Type 2 Dual Codes did?!?!

So, using my URC-7800 remote, I "learned" the codes being generated by my upgraded URC-8780 and discovered thhe Type 2 Dual Device Codes are generating incorrect code. Instead of sending Pioneer:171:044 Pioneer:175:??? as they should with byte2 = 3, they're sending Pioneer:171:042 Pioneer:175:??? as if byte2 = 1. Obviously that means my URC-8780 isn't properly initialized for the Pioneer MIX protocol.

Suggestions??

How about loading your KM file into the Diagnosis Area, then posting a link to it so we can see exactly what you've done?

The trouble with the URC-8780 is that it uses the MIts 740 processor and very few of us are familiar with that assembly language, so it's hard for us to verify how the protocol upgrade works.

Hopefully Mike E. has some time to look at this to verify that this protocol can handle the two different OBCs for the 1st part of the 2 part signals.

Thanks for all the help and tips!

I uploaded my KM file, including the downloaded IR file from my URC-8780 remote, to the diagnostics area as Pioneer_DVR-513H

In the mean time, since my URC-8780 remote "does" have the Pioneer and Pioneer DVD protocols already built-in, I got everything working by creating and installing 3 different KM device upgrades.

— one for all the single device codes using the Pioneer protocol
— one for all the type 1 dual codes using the Pioneer DVD protocol
— one for all the type 2 dual codes using the Pioneer DVD protocol

I installed the type 2 codes upgrade as my "primary" device and then "key moved" functions from the other 2 upgrades to get the missing keys working.

Hey, I realize it's a kludge fix that burns up a bunch of my remote's memory, but it'll work until someone comes up with the correct way to create a single KM upgrade for my particular remote (if that's even possible??)

Why not use the MIX protocol with 44 as the primary OBC for part-1, then you'd only need 14 keymoves for the "type 1" signals?

According to a note that pops up in KM when generating the update, P8/740 type remotes like my URC-8780 can only handle 50 byte upgrades That works out to only 19 buttons for an MIX update so doing it that way would require I move even more buttons that using the older "built-in" protocols.

Guess the "correct" way to do this would probably be to either send my remote back to OFA for an upgrade or just get a newer model but hey… I'm a firm believer in not upgrading if the old stuff still meets my needs. Heck, some may gasp in horror, but I'm still running WinMe and a "hacked" version of Win95 OSR2 on my computers. Sure they don't have all the bells and whistles of WinXP but, until the day comes when I "need" a new computer or a piece of software that "only" runs under a newer version of Windows, why make Mr. Gates any richer than he already is??

BTW, it's been 5+ years since my Win95 software gave me a "blue screen of death" thanks to the many hacks I've done to it over the years

I'd forgotten about the 50 byte limit. While the URC-9800 was advanced for it's time (and your 8780 is a clone on the 9800), it's time has long since passed. Sending it back to OFA won't help because they can do even less with it than we can, so your idea about getting a new remote is not a bad one.