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JP1 Remotes
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bob_m
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 80
Location: Bourbonnais, IL
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 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:38 pm Post subject: Do some combo devices have more than one Protocol? |
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This question is related to the same issue mentioned here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4242
I'm trying to learn all my DVD/VCR's buttons and make an update for a Zenith XBV342.
I downloaded the available upgrade someone else made. Unfortunatley not all of the buttons are programed and/or mislabeled when compared to my Original remote.
Do some combo devices use more than one protocol?
Most buttons are NEC1 the last 6 (which are misssing from exisiting upgrade file) are NECx1.
EDIT: Buttons with NEC1 = Device 101;
Buttons with NECx1 = Device 45, SubDevice 45 - Even More confused now...
Two Buttons share same EFC, but protocol and device are different...
If this remote IS using 2 protocols, how can I go about getting the remote to use ALL of the buttons?
Ideas:
a) Learn codes to another device and Keymove. (Assuming I have an open device)
b) Just learn the functions manually to that device and live with it.
c) others?
Is there a list/post of LIMITations for HTPro and JP1 in general that I missed?
P.S. Of course I have the most problems with the room that has the most devices and the MAIN reason I got into JP1 remotes... *sigh* |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Do some combo devices have more than one Protocol? |
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| bob_m wrote: | | I'm trying to learn all my DVD/VCR's buttons |
| bob_m wrote: | | Do some combo devices use more than one protocol? |
Yes, it is common for VCR/DVD combo devices to use totally unrelated protocols for VCR functions vs. DVD functions.
| bob_m wrote: | EDIT: Buttons with NEC1 = Device 101;
Buttons with NECx1 = Device 45, SubDevice 45 |
Was that a typo? I would think the NEC1 signals would be device 110.
| bob_m wrote: | | Two Buttons share same EFC, but protocol and device are different... |
EFC is only meaningful within the context of protocol and device, so it is pure conincidence if two functions in different protocols have the same EFC.
| bob_m wrote: | | If this remote IS using 2 protocols, how can I go about getting the remote to use ALL of the buttons? |
There are a few methods for combining protocols into one device mode. The device combiner protocol is one powerful way. Using KeyMoves may be the most flexible and easy way (if you don't run out of KeyMove memory). Defining those KeyMoves as external functions in KM or RM will make a more understandable and maintainable upgrade than defining them in IR.EXE, but that choice doesn't affect what gets finally loaded into your remote.
BEFORE you start figuring out how to combine protocols in one device mode, figure out whether you want one or two device modes:
Does the original remote have a DVD mode and a VCR mode (every one with multiple protocols that I've heard of does)? Do the basic transport keys (Play, Stop, Etc.) on the original remote send different signals in DVD mode vs. VCR mode (I expect they do)? If so then it makes no sense to cram it all into one device mode in you JP1 remote.
For testing the above, I'm sure the DVD/VCR device itself has a DVD mode and a VCR mode. The question of whether its remote also has a DVD mode and VCR mode is independant. You need to be careful about what you test and what you assume in determining which modal behavior is within the device vs. which modal behavior is within the remote.
Even if you split to two device modes, you'll probably find you need a few of the VCR protocol functions in DVD mode and/or vice versa. Then you're back to figuring out the combo method, but with a better understanding of what you want to combine.
| bob_m wrote: | Ideas:
a) Learn codes to another device and Keymove. (Assuming I have an open device) |
You can't KeyMove learned signals, nor would you need to, since you can just bind them to the desired device mode and key. But I don't think learned signals are a good idea for this situation.
You can KeyMove signals from another setup code, and it doesn't matter whether that setup code is assigned to and device key.
| bob_m wrote: | | P.S. Of course I have the most problems with the room that has the most devices and the MAIN reason I got into JP1 remotes... *sigh* |
There are a few ways to make your remote with 8 device buttons act like it has more than 8 device support. So don't let the number of device buttons limit your plans.
My 15-2104 has only 6 device buttons and only 8 internal device modes (via extender). But at the moment it is programmed to support 9 devices:
4 different VCRs (2 of my 5 VCRs are identical),
2 different TV's
1 cable tuner
1 DVD player
1 camcorder |
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bob_m
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 80
Location: Bourbonnais, IL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Wow that was informative 8)
I suppose I'll have to test VCR/DVD signal learning and/or test the signals already learned in both methods.
Of course the MAIN button I'm trying to learn is the DVD function button.
Time for more experimenting. 
Device 101 was probably a typo...
I WANT all function in one mode if possible.
Do I need ALL buttons learned - probably not.
I'll keep trying but where is there info on "device combiner protocol"?
Link appreciated  |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21237
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bob_m wrote: | | I WANT all function in one mode if possible. |
Why? Just because this is physically one device doesn't mean you have to think of it as one device. It would make much more sense to think of it as two seperate devices (ie, a DVD player and a VCR). After all, if you combine all the functions into one upgrade, would the PLAY button play a tape or a DVD? If PLAY works the DVD which button will you use to play tapes? Now, if you used two seperate upgrades, in VCR mode the PLAY button would play a tape and in DVD mode it would play a DVD.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| bob_m wrote: | | Of course the MAIN button I'm trying to learn is the DVD function button. |
I expect you mean there is a button named "DVD" on the original remote and it both sends a signal to tell the device to go into DVD mode and sets a mode inside the remote so that it also goes into DVD mode.
I'm not sure that's what you mean until you either explain something different or test and confirm the above. To do a good job of duplicating that function, there's a fair amount of info you'd need about DSM's and device modes, maybe about the device multiplexor protocol and/or extenders. I'll save all that until you have a firmer idea about what you want to do.
| bob_m wrote: | | I WANT all function in one mode if possible. |
I'll echo Rob's "Why?"
But also make sure you set your goals in terms of how your JP1 remote behaves, rather than in terms of how that is achieved.
Even if you end up wanting the DVD/VCR support in your JP1 remote to act more like a single device than most of us would find appropriate, that would be a complex enough config that you need to have a clearer seperation in your mind between internal resources like device modes and external behaviors.
As soon as you confirm that the basic transport functions are different IR signal with the original remote in VCR vs. DVD modes, there must be a big step between them on the JP1 side, roughly equal to a change of device mode. Even if you decide you need to hide that change from the user of the JP1 remote (which you may be able to do) it still needs to be in there.
| bob_m wrote: | | Do I need ALL buttons learned - probably not. |
You mean learn them all for investigative purposes to understand what you want to duplicate via JP1?
There is a lot of data out there on DVDs using NECx1:5.5 and on VCRs using NEC1:110. It's probably easier to get most of your function codes that way rather than by learning. But I don't know of data on mixtures of those two. Most DVD/VCR mixtures have some strange boundary issues. You'll need learning or testing to find where those are in your device.
| bob_m wrote: | but where is there info on "device combiner protocol"?
Link appreciated |
It is built into KM and RM. It is documented in KM's documentation (I haven't looked at RM's version yet, but other experts are expert in that).
Are you using KM or RM?
Hold off on Device combiner until you know what you want to combine. |
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gfb107
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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