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2133 Extender problems
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:29 pm    Post subject: 2133 Extender problems Reply with quote

I've been trying to load the 2133 extender with no luck. I looked back through the Yahoo groups forum and found that kokop76 had reported exactly the same problem back in July.

I have tried the unmodified extender, checked that the proper RDF is in the same directory, am using the latest IR.EXE. I'm able to revert to any prior 2133 saved configuration with no problems.

But when I load the extender, after pressing the (TV) Power button, the active animated icon is the SAT/CBL, no keys will function and the panel stays lit for almost 2 minutes, then goes out. Then it will not respond to touch or movement. I can only revive it by reloading a configuration via JP1.

A downloaded image after an upload compares as being exactly the same as baseline (before uploading).

Is it possible there is a variant to the 2133 on the loose?
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: 2133 Extender problems Reply with quote

An update to my problem:

I have now read through Dave's thread on problems with Ext 3.1 on an 8810. If you note the difference in display capabilities, my problem also resembles his (lock-up after initializing the extender).

I tried fresh batteries to no avail and the trick of only 3 batteries instead of 4 also made no difference in the results.

BTW, I'm using an extender very successfully on a OFA 9910. This 2133 is for a church meeting room that needs the help of "active buttons only" as much as possible.

One of the reasons I need the extender is to work around an apparent bug in the 2133. It seems that one device (a Marantz RC5 cassette) refuses to allow VPT to the audio receiver even though there is nothing assigned to the volume/mute buttons on the upgrade. If I change the upgrade type to SAT/CBL, VPT works but does not expose the buttons in the way I would like. I have tried key moves to accomplish the VPT and it still doesn't work. I guess I could try a macro since I want the same VPT for all devices.
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the 2133 extender not being supported?

It looks like I should give up on this problem. Nobody has responded to my messages for over a week now.
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jamesgammel
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 394
Location: Gillette, Wyoming

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to remember a couple of things: 1. Most of us, and the "experts" view the kameleons as Mostly "flash" so they don't have one. 2. Newbies, and the un-informed are more prone to buy these things because of their "flash" appeal, power users (ie experts) avoid it. 3. the remote is a "high-dollar" item, close to 70.00. You can't expect an "expert" to shell out 70.00 for a remote they wouldn't use, just to have laying around to support newbies and "flash" buyers. 4. You're actually lucky thay anyone even bothered to make the 2133 extender, and it actually surprised me just how fast one appeared after the remote's introduction.
Therefore, MOST actual 2133 users and owners are going to be newbies like yourself. That brings up further issues, Most newbies are "intimidated" by even trying extenders, so even newbies with a 2133 and using the 2133 extender(s) makes the pool of available help and advice even smaller. All of these combined to result in no answers for your posts.
Notice how the latest Kameleon's are just 4 devicer's, and NOT JP-1 capable? Plus the much smaller eeprom's they ship with? I think it's a last ditch effort to save a concept that's received so many complaints. I think once word gets out about the changes, rather than increasing sales, they'll fall off even more, and lead to the total demise of the kameleon concept.

Jim
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James

Thanks for responding. Just to get it on record, I rejected the Kameleon for my own use. I have my own 9910 programmed very successfully with the extender, also own a 1994 which I use for cross-testing & learning and although I don't consider myself a guru in JP1, I think I've progressed past the newbie stage. I've been programming beyond the published user set of commands in various settings since I began programming in what was known as "synthetic code" on an HP-41C in 1980.

I am currently a beta tester for two independent programming environments and a high end DSP based professional mixing system. I personally have programmed kiosk and show control systems in use at both Epcot and Disneyland and my company has supplied and programmed control systems for all Chuck E Cheese restaurants, Imax systems, the Star Trek show in Las Vegas and many other installations on five continents.

I was willing to accept the newbie moniker several months ago but I hope trying to help someone else with a 2133 doesn't brand me indefinetely.

The use of the Kameleon for this church was not my call, although I realize now, I should have discouraged it. But there was some sense in it having the ability to restrict the appearance of unneeded buttons to the multiple users of the facility. In the other higher budget area, we provided a solid AMX control system. I was just trying to save them money for this one area.

I realize now of course that the extender code for the 2133 is an orphan so I need to decide whether to try another one, hoping to find a working unit or try to convince the decision maker that we should take a different path.

I am a little surprised that I was able to kill off any further discussion in another thread by asking if there might be a common solution. Also, I find it amusing and ironic that as I type this message, the banner ad for Surf Remote Control is promoting the 9960 Kameleon which has no extender available.

Finally, I do want to indicate that I recognize the volunteer sharing of information and programming efforts here. I have found it extremely useful and I'm preparing some information on a couple devices to share back with the group.

Dick
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just another thought.

I would be willing to donate the 2133 that I currently have to someone that feels that they can fix the problem with the extender. If my plate wasn't so full otherwise, I'd dig in and learn the coding myself. But right now, I can be more productive in other ways.

Dick
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Mark Pierson
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dtrump wrote:
I realize now of course that the extender code for the 2133 is an orphan so I need to decide whether to try another one, hoping to find a working unit or try to convince the decision maker that we should take a different path.

I wouldn't say it's an orphan. I know Hal, who wrote the 2133 extender has been very busy in "real life" and doesn't check in as often as he used to. I'm not sure if anyone else is knowledgeable enough about the 2133 extender to be of much help.

Perhaps one of the other extender experts can provide some assistance. Other than what you described in the opening post to this thread, are there any other details you can share about what it's doing (or not doing)?
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For various reasons I've given mainly easy answers lately. Remote control things that require research I set aside and then don't get to. So I certainly can't offer to borrow your remote and debug the extender.

I did check that the 15-2133 exender has the two NOP's after the STOP since someone discovered that problem in the 8811.

How did you load the extender? Did you use the 2133_extender1_2K.txt file from the .zip? If not, maybe you should try that and/or upload (to diagnosis) the image you did try.

Is your eeprom 2K? The 15-2133 seems to support 4K as well. I don't know how they're sold.
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John & Mark

Thanks for checking on the NOPs, John. It was a bit of a shot in the dark since some of the symptoms were similar.

And yes, I tried the extender txt file from the zip without modification just to make sure I hadn't done anything stupid. (The jury is still out on that.) As I indicated, I downloaded back from the remote and compared that to the original - no difference.

I don't recall other than opening up the unit if there is a way to determine positively whether a unit has 2k or 4k eeprom. I'm quite sure I'm using the 2k version of the RDF when working without the extender which ought to be a good indicator. I'll double check tonight.

Since kokop76's problems last summer were exactly the same, I tried emailing him directly prior to posting my original question here. The email bounced, so that seemed a deadend path.

Dick
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dtrump wrote:

I don't recall other than opening up the unit if there is a way to determine positively whether a unit has 2k or 4k eeprom. I'm quite sure I'm using the 2k version of the RDF when working without the extender which ought to be a good indicator.


IR.EXE can't read or write the eeprom at all without a correct determination of whether or not it's 4K (or larger) vs. 2K (or smaller). From what you just said, it must be 2K or you would have seen plenty of indications of an eeprom size problem in using IR.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21210
Location: Chicago, IL

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 15-2133 ships with a 2k chip, so the only way it would have a 4k chip is if you added it yourself (or someone else did).

I don't recall if anyone here's actually put a 4k chip in the 15-2133 or not.
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Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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kenyarnall



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Pennsylvania

                    
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:01 pm    Post subject: Kameleon worth anything? Reply with quote

jamesgammel wrote:
You have to remember a couple of things: 1. Most of us, and the "experts" view the kameleons as Mostly "flash" so they don't have one. 2. Newbies, and the un-informed are more prone to buy these things because of their "flash" appeal, power users (ie experts) avoid it. 3. the remote is a "high-dollar" item, close to 70.00. You can't expect an "expert" to shell out 70.00 for a remote they wouldn't use, just to have laying around to support newbies and "flash" buyers. 4. You're actually lucky thay anyone even bothered to make the 2133 extender, and it actually surprised me just how fast one appeared after the remote's introduction.


I bought the 9960 after trying one out in a store for a couple of reasons: my wife likes it and can use it (she is far too busy to work hard at learning a remote. So am I, but I do it anyway). And, it has JP1, so it is configurable. It isn't noisy, doesn't "eat" batteries, feels good in my hand. I don't find most of the complaints I've read about the remote to be correct about my 9960. My mileage varied, I guess.

The "flash" is nice enough, but wasn't enough to sell me on the remote. Having buttons that are correctly named for what they do makes this a considerably better remote than my URC 7800.

If I could program macros onto the device buttons and learn code to a couple of the "special" buttons (pvr vod, for instance), I'd be able to have the remote exactly as I want it. Well, that and I need to get ToadTog installed to deal with my TV. I would enjoy an extender that allowed this to happen. I would be willing to work on an extender, if someone would point me towards educating myself sufficiently to do so (I am qualified to write one in the abstract, but not in the particulars).


Ken
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm calling off my plea for help on the RS 15-2133 (Kameleon). After consulting with the customer, we agreed to abandon the Kool factor and move on to something we know will work (a 2116).

I've already made the swap with the RS store and they were very nice about it.

Thanks for all the help.

Dick
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

                    
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 2133 Extender problems Reply with quote

dtrump wrote:
One of the reasons I need the extender is to work around an apparent bug in the 2133. It seems that one device (a Marantz RC5 cassette) refuses to allow VPT to the audio receiver even though there is nothing assigned to the volume/mute buttons on the upgrade. If I change the upgrade type to SAT/CBL, VPT works but does not expose the buttons in the way I would like. I have tried key moves to accomplish the VPT and it still doesn't work. I guess I could try a macro since I want the same VPT for all devices.

I guess it isn't so important anymore but I recall (at least I think I recall)
in past experimentation with RS remotes if I started using keymoves, it
somehow disabled VPT for that device. Not sure if this is related to what
you were seeing or not.
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dtrump



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 81
Location: Des Moines, IA

                    
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 2133 Extender problems Reply with quote

sfhub wrote:
I guess it isn't so important anymore but I recall (at least I think I recall)
in past experimentation with RS remotes if I started using keymoves, it
somehow disabled VPT for that device. Not sure if this is related to what
you were seeing or not.


I never did solve that. I don't have it anymore but it would have been interesting to see if removing all keymoves changed that behavior.

There were lots of other reasons to want an extender for the 2133. I've got the 2116 pretty much jumping through all the hoops now so I think the client will be happy.

Dick
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