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RCA receiver multiple protocols and then some..

 
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

                    
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:46 am    Post subject: RCA receiver multiple protocols and then some.. Reply with quote

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/rca9950learnedsig.IR

I am trying to learn the codes for an RCA amp from the original remote onto a JP1 enabled URC 9960.

One minor problem encontered in IR - multiple unrecognised protocols and multiple OBC that I dont know how to enter into KM. Furthermore the majority of learned codes in IR have a warning regarding part of the signal being sent after button is released (i have triple checked the learning to ensure it has been recieved). I have searched the forum to no avail...
The link above is the IR file of learned signals from the original remote.
*RCA RV9950 audio receiver - no upgrades found during search*
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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Location: Bedford, MA

                    
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: RCA receiver multiple protocols and then some.. Reply with quote

land_down_under wrote:
I am trying to learn the codes for an RCA amp from the original remote onto a JP1 enabled URC 9960.


Those are really rotten learns. At first glance they look like they're bad because the RCA remote had weak batteries (batteries become to weak to use in teaching a learning remote well before they are too weak to use in operating the original device).

land_down_under wrote:
multiple unrecognised protocols and multiple OBC that I dont know how to enter into KM.


Jon, Rob and I, and I'm sure others know how to manually decode those and get the correct RCA device and OBC number despite the bad learning, but it's a tedious process. I don't have time right now, and if I don't have time today, I won't have time tomorrow either.

land_down_under wrote:
Furthermore the majority of learned codes in IR have a warning regarding part of the signal being sent after button is released


The warning is wrong. It really means that the 9960 firmware didn't detect the repeat pattern (because the learn was too bad) but received too much to store as an ordinary "Sent Once" signal.

Sometimes that warning is displayed on perfectly good learns that are one-time signals that are too long to store the simple way. In cases like this the warning is displayed because the remote misunderstood the structure of the signal it was learning (pulse widths that don't vary in correct RCA varied because the battery voltage recovers between button presses and goes rapidly down while the button is pressed).
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

                    
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: RCA receiver multiple protocols and then some.. Reply with quote

Quote:
Those are really rotten learns. At first glance they look like they're bad because the RCA remote had weak batteries (batteries become to weak to use in teaching a learning remote well before they are too weak to use in operating the original device).


Obviously the first thing I shall try next is a fresh set of batteries....thanks for the help
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I have now retried with fresh batteries in both remotes. The learned signals look clearer than the previous post and there appears to be some pattern...there stills remains however multiple protocols, OBC's. There is also no warning as previous.

The updated link is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/rca9950learnedsig.IR

Can these be multiple OBC's be entered into KM? Thankyou.
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After some more searching and experimentation I have managed to get the majority of learned signals working - I tried a cross match of a couple of previous files to get success.
There are two remaining protocols that I cant get to work - the audio 1 and 2 buttons..The codes do not work even after direct learning.
From the previous posts it has been identified that the device codes for most RCA devices is between 0-15. In my example however audio 1 has a device code of 138 and audio 2 a device code of 170. Is this the root of the problem?
Also read on a previous post that it may have something to do with the 2-byte protocol...?
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of these are ordinary RCA signals. I decoded the first set by hand. I have no clue why the second set were mostly worse learns than the first.

The only decodes that mean anything are the RCA ones. All those Gap decodes are just the decoder software trying to guess, and in this case failing miserably. So just ignore them.

You do have more than one device number there. That could be built as some sort of combo upgrade with 2-byte hex commands. But I don't think that is what you should do.

I think you should use an upgrade for a single RCA device number, whichever device number is used the most among the signals you want. Then use KeyMoves for the signals needed from other device numbers. For five of the device numbers (listed below) the 9960 has built-in setup codes that can be used as the base for such KeyMoves. For other device numbers I guess you'll need aditional simple RCA upgrades with no functions bound to buttons, to use as the base for KeyMoves.

Your "power" signal is device 15, OBC 59. That's the standard discrete Off command for an RCA TV, which is a little surprising, since you have an amp, not a TV.

Your Vol+, Vol- and Mute are all device 12. They are OBCs 47, 46, and 63 (which RCA always uses for those functions).

Your Audio 1, Audio 2 and Audio 3 are all OBC 58, which is the standard RCA signal used as a discrete On when the device number matches the current device and Discrete input select when it doesn't. They are devices 13, 15 and 12. 13 is the alternate VCR number. 15 as I mentioned before is TV, and 12 is for an Amp (and matches your Vol+, Vol- and Mute functions).

You can get RCA device numbers by built in setup codes using:

4 - Sat/0885
5 - DVD/0522 or 0822
7 - Sat/0143 or 392 or 566
14 - VCR/0060
15 - TV/0047 and several 1x47 varients

Standard RCA OBC numbers are:

' 5 Ant
' 6 Clear
' 8 Menu
' 11 Tracking
' 12 Freeze
' 18 Memory
' 20 PIP Move
' 21 Play
' 23 Record
' 24 Setup
' 31 Stop
' 36 Add/Delete
' 44 Chan-
' 45 Chan+
' 46 Vol-
' 47 Vol+
' 48-57 0 - 9
' 58 On
' 59 Off
' 60 Info / Display
' 63 Mute
' 64 Eject
' 70 Speed
' 71 Input
' 97 Input / Who
' 100 -
' 101 +
' 147 Fetch
' 195 PIP Swap
' 208 Time Srch
' 225 Audio
' 226 Video
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

land_down_under wrote:

There are two remaining protocols that I cant get to work - the audio 1 and 2 buttons.


In case my long explanation was too much. Here is the short version for those two functions.

Audio 2 is easier. In IR.exe create a KeyMove, selecting whatever Device and Key you want it bound to. Set Device type to TV and Setup code to 0047 and EFC to 227 (227 is the EFC encription of the OBC 58).

Be sure to delete the learned signal, if there is one, on the same bound key or it would prevent using the KeyMove.

Audio 1 requires that you first install a device upgrade for the alternate RCA VCR code. Here is that:
Upgrade code 0 = 20 ca (VCR/0202)
af 00 01 df
End

Once that is done you can create the KeyMove for Audio 1 similar to the way you did Audio 2, but using VCR/0202 instead of TV/0047 (Several JP1 remotes have VCR/0202 built-in, but the 9960 doesn't).
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 11

                    
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help johnsfine - one thing for certain I would never have got there without your help....thanks again.
I did note that when upgrading to VCR/202 in KM that when pasted into IR the keys dont appear to be mapped(on the IR device tab)...I double checked and they were entered properly into KM. The keymove process works so I was just wondering why it doesnt appear as mapped?
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you confused between the functions sheet in KM and the buttons sheet?

On the functions sheet you define all the functions. But none of that information goes directly into the upgrade, so none of it reaches IR or the remote unless you also use the buttons sheet.

On the buttons sheet you select which functions go onto which buttons.

Since you're not assigning VCR/0202 to a device key (I assume) there is no reason to assign any buttons. As a source for KeyMoves, it just needs the protocol and device number. The KeyMove itself provides the EFC number that specifies the rest.

There is another way to get the same results into your remote with a more understandable trail left in your saved file. Create and install the same VCR/0202 upgrade with no buttons mapped (you don't need to do it again if that is already done). Then instead of using the KeyMoves tab of IR to define the KeyMove, define the function of the KeyMove as an external functions in your main upgrade (not the VCR/0202 upgrade, but the one I expect uses device 12 for most of your keys). Assign that function to a key on the buttons sheet and then KM (or RM if you're using that) will include the KeyMove in the data transferred to IR with the device upgrade.
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the functions sheet you define all the functions. But none of that information goes directly into the upgrade, so none of it reaches IR or the remote unless you also use the buttons sheet


Thats the confusing thing for me - I have defineately assigned the function in the buttons sheet...however when the data is copied over to IR the key (in my case button 1) nothing show up as mapped (on the devices tab of IR). I know it has worked because the remote button 1 works...
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are just just defining one button? IR.exe loses it's ability to figure out how to display the buttons when there's only a few buttons programmed. This is because it can't figure out how many bytes of fixed data are present.
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Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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land_down_under



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I am - thanks for the answer Rob - the button must be captured because it works on the remote just doesnt show up and now I know why..
Thanks again for all your help Johnsfine
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