rdf for OneForAll 7562 chipcode B01 sig EM60EM60 help

[rem]

I'm new to JP1. Made the simple cable and it works - !

First, a BIG THANK YOU to the JP1 community for documenting and sharing the info.

I'm in the UK and have just got a OneForAll 7562 with chipcode B01, but the signature differs from the normal one. (Battery comparment sticker is URC 7562 B01 then next line is C F9XKW-C0C9 EC.)

This is my attempt to model a EM60EM60.rdf based on the EBV0EBV1.rdf.
I'm submitting it for diagnosis.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files ... 60em60.zip

(Note the zip file has various dumps of the remote. They're all documented.)

I've only grasped a basic understanding of the .rdf file, so my changes are minor.

I've tried to comment out the original values with ';' and placed my change directly after the comment line. I've reached the limit of my medling abilities and would appreciate a bit of help!
Can some kind soul check and/or amend it further for me please!

[rem]

Just an update.

I'm itching to use the IR.EXE program, but I haven't used it to change or upload any info to the remote yet. (Due to the fact that I don't know if my adhoc changes to the orginal .rdf file are complete or suitable.)

Anyway - my questions.
1) Will I damage my remote in any way if I use the IR.EXE program to upload changes to the remote if I use an incorrectly defined .rdf file?
2) If I do have problems with the remote after uploading incorrect (or unsuitable) data to it - how do I recover the remote? Ie can I just re-upload the orginal data that was on the remote and everything will be ok?
3) Do I just use the nearest matching .rdf file and just change the signature on my remote to match it instead? Will this be harmful to the remote if I upload a different signature onto it? And is it recoveable?


Thanks in advance.

[johnsfine]

1) Will I damage my remote in any way if I use the IR.EXE program to upload changes to the remote if I use an incorrectly defined .rdf file?

A wrong RDF will just result in wrong eeprom contents, not anything more serious.

2) If I do have problems with the remote after uploading incorrect (or unsuitable) data to it - how do I recover the remote? Ie can I just re-upload the orginal data that was on the remote and everything will be ok?

If you saved the original data while IR.EXE thought it didn't have any compatible RDF (and wouldn't display devices or KeyMoves, etc.) then that would be an exact image of what it downloaded and could be uploaded exactly. (You can force that behavior by hiding RDF files).

If you save the original using a wrong RDF, IR.EXE may make some minor changes to it that may make it incorrect for upload.

3) Do I just use the nearest matching .rdf file and just change the signature on my remote to match it instead? Will this be harmful to the remote if I upload a different signature onto it? And is it recoveable?

The remote works fine with a wrong signature loaded into it. The warning about wrong signature is just a hint to you that other things may also be incompatible.

If you really mess up, you might need a 981 reset (erasing all your original settings) to get the remote's eeprom contents back to correct. But more likely a reupload without a valid RDF of the original eeprom contents will work and will restore those contents (including the signature).

[Andy]

Bought it last week.
Discovered what JP1 was all about last weekend.
Built a cable yesterday.
Scratched my head over RDF files.
Tried your .RDF file today.

It seems o.k., I note you commented out the [FixedData], I had a mind to just change it to $01, maybe your way is safer.

I just did an Upgrade to look like a TEAC tuner remote control. Some of the buttons got automatically assigned (by KM) to buttons such as "SLEEP" and "Select", which IR recognises too (from the .RDF) but I'm darned if I can recognise from the keypad. And pressing all the keys doesn't seem to find them either. But all the other stuff works just fine.

I'll do a "learn" onto each and every button and try to map what buttons are there and what aren't.

I'll let you know ...

[The Robman]

The URC-7560 (and it's clones) have a stack of buttons in the middle of remote who's meaning changes based on what button was pressed before. Sometimes they are the volume and channel buttons, sometimes they are arrows and select, or something like that. The exact process should be described in the manual.

As these remotes are only available in Europe and not in the States, most of us don't have any first hand experience with them.

[Andy]

Thanks for the reply, Rob

I was dog tired last night. Now I have read the relevant section in RDF3Spec.doc I realise that codes $80 and up are "shifted" buttons. As that's not the effect I want here (yet) I'll just note those buttons and avoid them for now.

As per your comment, it looks as though it isn't always the "Magic" key that does the shifting.

Thanks

[The Robman]

For UEI remotes the MAGIC (aka SET, SETUP or P) button always acts as a SHIFT key, but there are a few additional situations:

1) The old LCD remotes, such as the Producer 8, Topline 5 and 8, and 15-1995 remotes also have a button labelled SHIFT. This shift button is used to access the shifted functions that are part of an upgrade or a built in setup code. You would still use SETUP to access shifted buttons programmed using keymoves.

2) I've just re-read the manual for the European URC-7560 remote and I was slightly off about the stack of buttons. These are the CH +/- and VOL +/- buttons, there are tiny arrow key buttons just to the side of each of them. The button in the middle is a dual purpose MUTE/SELECT button, so I guess you have to decide which one you want it to be. The CH/VOL buttons also double as Brightness/Colour buttons, and you would use the MAGIC key to access these.

[Andy]

I got a bit further with this now, but not much.

I now have a complete record of the codes generated by my original remote, and on the way I was able to check that the RDF knows where all the buttons are (either the RDF in the archive or "rem"'s - I think he didn't change the [Buttons] section).

But after the upgrade I get many functions come up in strange places, notably everything from rewind down is a bit random, also a tendency to swap "menu" with "up" (and not even consistent from upload to upload !).

I had been using KM, but I tried RM, as I understand that uses the same RDF file, so would be "singing from the same hymn-sheet" as IR. Same (or similar) result.

Just to check I'm not a total idiot (your opinion may vary !) I made an equivalent upgrade for a URC-7544 I happen to have lying around (and for which IR finds a suitable RDF). No problems here, all buttons present and exactly where I wanted them. It's so good I'm tempted to stop bothering with the URC-7562 (just keep it for learning codes), but one day I'll need all 6 devices, and the 7562 does feel very good in the hand, with its rubbery bits. The only small surprise is that the Ch.+ and Ch.- buttons (not specified in my upgrade) issue number codes (as I entered for 0 to 9), in a sequence that is independent to any number button pressed, i.e. a clever idea but not quite implemented right ! Generally the 7562 did this as well if I didn't put anything on these buttons.

I guess that some work on the RDF file is needed here. Can you point me to a thread or tutorial to help me get to grips with this ? The definition document for RDFs is good, but does not go as far as to guide one in discovering where the various address areas fall.

Thanks

Andy

p.s. "rem", did you get a better upload experience than I did ?

[rem]

Andy -
I think you're right about
;[FixedData]
;$01D = $14

maybe it should be
[FixedData]
$01D = $01

I was looking for =$14 value and got myself confused!

I've been trying to use the remote in it's factory state, using the inbuilt codes to see if I can get used to it.

So far, I've noticed that there are some pre-programed shift functions. As Rob says, they are mentioned in the instructions, but using them takes a little getting use to!

For the any device (although it's usually only set for the TV) theres a 'timed shift mode'
i.e. if I press 'MAGIC' then for the next 10 secs I can use
Chan +/- to adjust brightness
Vol +/- to adjust colour
without having to press 'MAGIC' before each keypress. This seems to work, so long as I don't deviate from the chan +/- or vol +/- keys for the duration of the period.

For the TV, VCR, SAT & DVD devices there's the 'auto channel scan' function when shift MUTE (MAGIC then MUTE) is pressed.

For all the devices there is another, more subtle, 'timed MENU shift mode'.
After pressing the 'MENU' key,
the MUTE key functions as OK/Enter (until EXIT is pressed, or 10 secs elapses after last key press)
the AV key functions as EXIT (once only!)
It's all a bit confusing and I still can't get the hang of it!


So the MUTE button is usually a MUTE button
MAGIC, MUTE performs the Auto Channel Scan
MENU, MUTE performs OK/Enter until it times out or AV(Exit) is pressed

OneForAll have probably done this to reduce the button count and tried to compensate for it by some clever programming - not!

Andy, I've just tried an upload. You're right. The buttons are a bit of a mess! As far as I can tell, they go a bit wrong after the numbers. Whoops. It looks like it's not sufficient to copy the .rdf from the older remote and making small changes.


Rob - is there any chance of you looking at my original files and refining the .rdf for us - please!


Some background info in case it may be useful to anyone else....

I was initally reluctant to use IR.EXE to upload anything to my remote, but after reading Johnsfine reply I did it anyway. He's absolutely spot on! So I'll be able to experiment in the weeks to come safe with the knowledge that I can always reupload the initial settings back to my remote when I get myself into a pickle!

As Johnsfine said, you can use IR.EXE to simply download your remote and save the contents into a file so that you back a backup of the eeprom of the remote even without a .rdf file.

I've not got Excel 97 (or greater) so I've not been able to use KM, Devices4.xls and probably Devices.xls in their full capacity. I've tried using the Excel Viewer, Works spreadsheet and OpenOffice 1.1.3 spreadsheet but I can't get at the info.

Uploading a file from a EBV0EBV1.ir is not much use. Although it changes my remote's signature, the remote doesn't work properly.

I borrowed a friends EBV0EBV1 for a few days, it had chipcode B00 (sticker URC 7562 B00 on back cover).

The EBV0EBV1/chipcode B00 can be upgraded via the internet (playing the .wav files from OneForAll's support site).
The EM60EM60/chipcode B01 cannot be upgraded yet via the internet. OneForAll haven't catered for this newer version on their website!

[Andy]

I'm not there yet, but :

I verified all the (non-shifted and non-phantom) button codes in the [Buttons] section, all present and correct.

I messed a bit with the [DeviceButtons] section and verified the addresses you have, but don't understand your comment about the order - I moved DVD to the end and notice no ill effects and now IR lists the buttons in the obvious order.

The most work I did was in the [ButtonMaps] section, and generally I can get the upgrade to use the right buttons by tinkering with the order. Try :

Code: Select all

[ButtonMaps]
0 = ($1F, $15, $16, $17, $19, $1A, $1B, $1C, $1D, $1E), ($04, $05, $08), ($06, $07),
    $03, $C3, $2F, $18, $20, $0C, $0F, $0B, $0D, $0E, $10, $13, $29, $2A, $2B, $2C,
    $14, $88, $C6, $C7, $C4, $C5, $23, $24, $25, $26, $27, $28, $2D, $2E, $30
1 = ($1F, $15, $16, $17, $19, $1A, $1B, $1C, $1D, $1E), ($04, $05, $08), ($06, $07),
    $03, $2F, $18, $20, $0C, $0F, $0B, $0D, $0E, $10, $13, $29, $2A, $2B, $2C,
    $14, $88, $C3

Now this is a work in progress, I'm off to bed now, very tired. I'm posting this before I give up for this evening in case it rings any bells with you, rem. Don't trust the "0" section, I've really been working on the "1"s. And I've lost the red SP/LP and blue AUTO buttons along the way. But everything else is in the right place, which gives me hope.

Oh, yes, and I can get no shifted functions (keymoves ?) to work at all, maybe there's a defining address in the [General] section still to amend.

A little curiosity is that the yellow REC button needs two presses to produce an output (explained in the manual but not applicable to what I'm using it for). I guess this is a feature toggled by a bit somewhere, and if I ever find it it will belong in the [Settings] section.

I'm minded to put my CD/AUDIO upgrade onto a button reassigned as TV, which should sidestep the behaviour of the REC button and give me the A to H buttons to play with as well. Does anyone know of a reason why this would be a bad idea ?

Thanks

Andy

[johnsfine]

A little curiosity is that the yellow REC button needs two presses to produce an output (explained in the manual but not applicable to what I'm using it for). I guess this is a feature toggled by a bit somewhere, and if I ever find it it will belong in the [Settings] section.

In most models, that feature is present and there is no such settings bit.

You can usually disable that feature using a KeyMove for that key.

I forget whether you can disable that feature by changing the device type of the upgrade.

[The Robman]

Andy, did you get the RDF that I emailed you, it should have the correct ButtonMaps section in it.

[Andy]

Rob, no I hadn't seen your RDF last evening, otherwise I wouldn't have been tinkering with the old one !

I do have it now, it must have got held up somewhere - I hope my ISP's email delay problems of a few months ago are not returning.

Now I have it I am still struggling as RemoteMaster chokes on it. As soon as I allocate the first button, then the "output" tab becomes not selectable !

I guess that KM will be no use here, as it will know nothing about this variant yet.

Thanks anyway

Andy

[rem]

Andy, sorry I've not been any help. I've broken my cable and still haven't got all the bits I need to fix it yet.

Not sure if this will help you, but when I had a working cable I used davespagnol's documents (in jp1/files/help documents) 'How to create a device.txt' & 'Using resources to build a new device.txt' to try some basic functions.

His user config worked for the B00 chipset remote, but not on the B01 chipset remote.
Probably due to the change in button mapping.

From what I can remember, I made the comment in the [DeviceButtons] when I found that the TV & SAT settings looked odd in IR.EXE when I had them in the same order as the original 7562 rdf file. Maybe I was mistaken. Can't check it at the moment!

[The Robman]

Hey rem,
I've been looking at the IR dumps in your zip file and one of them is full of upgrades, where did these upgrades come from? I'm guessing you didn't create them, so where they factory installed in the remote or did you download them? I'm curious to know whether they are official UEI codes or not because I don't have data for most of the codes, but the few that I do have data for conflicts with the data in the upgrades.