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Ruark R2 radio
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rh100605



Joined: 27 Jul 2023
Posts: 8

                    
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:05 am    Post subject: Ruark R2 radio Reply with quote

I am using a All for one URC1240 remote to control a Ruark R2 radio. I have the original remote which I learned from.

I have decoded the Hex commands and using RMIR have created a new device to control the radio using the NEC1 protocol.

It works fine on the later model (R2i) but not on the older R2. The repeat send is not accepted by the R2 radio meaning presets cannot be set with a long push.

I looked at the waveforms by using a 38Khz receiver diode and a digital storage scope. The URC1240 finishes each command in 107ms whereas the original remote takes 108msec . The repeats are similar.

I used RMPB to edit the NEC1 protocol to total 108msec but if I update and build the resulting waveform has no repeats at all. If I edit R28 back from C7 to CF in the assembler without a build(just ok) it works again.

I have tried several timing combinations , when ever I assemble and build it fails.

Can anyone help
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post the RMIR file which contains the learns that you captured from the R2?

Please upload the file to the Diagnosis Area in the file section, then post a link to the file here.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The URC1240 uses an S3F80 processor. You speak of changing R28 back from C7 to CF, so presumably your edit changed it from CF to C7. R28 is PF0. Bits 2 and 3 of PF0 set the words to send in the command portion of the signal. You are changing this setting from 3 (all protocol's variable parameters, PD01 bits each) to 1 (single word of PD01 bits). I am not surprised that this had unexpected consequences.

If I have misunderstood what you changed, please explain in more detail.
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Graham
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rh100605



Joined: 27 Jul 2023
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
The URC1240 uses an S3F80 processor. You speak of changing R28 back from C7 to CF, so presumably your edit changed it from CF to C7. R28 is PF0. Bits 2 and 3 of PF0 set the words to send in the command portion of the signal. You are changing this setting from 3 (all protocol's variable parameters, PD01 bits each) to 1 (single word of PD01 bits). I am not surprised that this had unexpected consequences.

If I have misunderstood what you changed, please explain in more detail.


If I download my remote programmed using RMIR and then click devices then double click NEC1 protocol and immediately click update, then line FF05 changes from CF to C7 which breaks the protocol. It is not my changes causing the problem. I can correct it by editing C7 back to CF and clicking OK
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rh100605



Joined: 27 Jul 2023
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Can you post the RMIR file which contains the learns that you captured from the R2?

Please upload the file to the Diagnosis Area in the file section, then post a link to the file here.


Thanks for helping out. The RMIR File has been uploaded to the diagnosis area It contains one learned key for Preset 1 from original remote and the R4 and R2 devices programmed using RMIR.

I need advice as to how to post a link here ! Is this ok? If not Use Ruark as a search
[URL]
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=category&cat_id=35
[URL/]
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rh100605 wrote:
If I download my remote programmed using RMIR and then click devices then double click NEC1 protocol and immediately click update, then line FF05 changes from CF to C7 which breaks the protocol.

Thanks for pointing this out. It appears to be a bug in RMIR which I will look into, but in the meantime you can avoid it by clicking on the PF Details tab, without changing anything, before pressing Update as then it does not happen.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rh100605 wrote:
I need advice as to how to post a link here ! Is this ok? If not Use Ruark as a search
[URL]
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=category&cat_id=35
[URL/]

You need to navigate to your file, either by doing the search for Ruark yourself, or going to the main File Section link and looking for the latest file posted, which will be yours. Then you just copy/paste the URL into this thread, without needing to add any [URL] type tags, like this:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26761
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking at your file and it only has 1 learned button, so am I correct in assuming that your OEM remote only has 1 button on it?

If it has multiple buttons, I need to see a complete capture of all the buttons. The one learn that is included has a strange format where it has 1 occurrence of the NEC1 data, followed by 3 dittos, followed by another occurrence of the NEC1 data, then ditto. From just 1 learn, I can't tell if that's just poor learning technique on your part or if the signals are really all like that.
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pej



Joined: 05 Aug 2023
Posts: 7

                    
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,
I can also confirm I've seen BOTH the rh100605 raised issues:
1. C7 to CF in the assembler
and
2. The repeat occurring early at 107.4 ms rather than 108 ms as shown here:
https://techdocs.altium.com/display/FPGA/NEC+Infrared+Transmission+Protocol

Mathdon:
I can confirm (as above) works - 'avoid it by clicking on the PF Details tab, without changing anything, before pressing Update as then it does not happen'. Thanks.

ROBMAN:
The timing - only happens when I use the devices upgrade function - I put in device 134, sub-device 107 and a hex code eg 7F/OBC1, assign a key and there is the problem:
All functions work except the repeat/push and hold. I did exactly as rh100605 did, examine the NEC1 upgrade signal on a storage scope to see the repeats were occurring early. But learned signals are always spot on 108ms.

It just might be these Ruark/Vita Audio R2 sets are too fussy. I added about 1% to ALL (seven of) the NEC1 timings in RMPB and this solved it.

You may feel the 107/107.4ms timing for NEC1 repeat pulses is acceptable and that's fair enough - most equipment may not not mind. Timing can be manually corrected in RMPB. But there is also the possibility you might consider the timing should be better and want it sorted. It just might be the URC1210/40s have been manufacturer modified with a faster ref oscillator causing the problem or some other mod or even tolerance issue. But I leave it to your thoughts for consideration as to why the upgrade is clocking the whole signal out quicker that expected.

Above all very many thanks to all for your help and interest.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying the Ruark signal doesn't deviate from the NEC1 standard, but the deviation might not be what you think it is. The format of the one single learned signal that has been posted is very different to NEC1 in other ways than the overall length. It's different enough that the standard decoder in RMIR doesn't even call it NEC1, it's just the older, more forgiving, decoder that calls it NEC1.

So I am again asking for a full set of learns for the Ruark.
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pej



Joined: 05 Aug 2023
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robman
Thank you. I have immediately available an RMIR learned keys file which I have hopefully correctly downloaded to your files section.

It has only 4 out of 16 learned keys which I am hoping may be enough. If you require the full set it will take a little longer, but possible. Please let me know.
Thanks
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please post a link to the file
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Last edited by The Robman on Sat Aug 05, 2023 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pej



Joined: 05 Aug 2023
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an RMIR file at:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26768
Thanks
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, this is good because it confirms that the first learn posted was just a bad learn, the signal doesn't normally look like that. And yeah, looking at this, I would totally assume this was just a normal NEC1 signal, I am surprised that your device doesn't respond to it. It will take some time to tweak the NEC1 executor because you have to tweak it, load it into a remote, learn it with another remote, and see how it came out.
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pej



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robman

I understand why you wanted to see the learned signals. But just to clarify, as I do not want to waste your time, those learned signals sent to you do work the device including push and hold/repeat.

It is only the upgrade that does not work fully. Push and hold/repeat do not work on upgrade.

Using an oscilloscope to look at the IR binary waveforms I find the difference between learned signals from URC1210/40 are extremely close to the signal from the original remote. Hence the learned signals work.

It is only when I put the values into an upgrade, the frequency of the binary is a little higher. That's the only difference I could see between the upgrade and original remote.

In upgrade mode, you are right to be surprised the device does not respond - to clarify it does have a limited response - it knows what key is pressed, but does not like push and hold for storing radio stations and scrolling up and down station lists and volume.

I have used upgrade NEC1 for other devices without problems. I just have one particular Vita Audio R2 that is rather fussy with the timing.

Thanks again for looking. It is highly appreciated.
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