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TCL AIR CONDITIONER REMOTE GYKQ-03
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ylaviolette



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, the investment was worth it. It works!

However, so far I only managed to get it working by programming the pronto codes in My URC-9910.

For some reason, the USB-UIRT doesn't work with the same pronto codes.

Any clue where the problem could be? Frequency support?

http://usbuirt.com/overview.htm

MEanwhile would you mind providing the easiest way to convert the learned IRScope signals to Pronto HEx like you did above?
I will try to educate myself and save you some newbie support time =)

I will do further testing and keep you posted as I really need to have this working on the USB-UIRT.

Thx
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In IRScope there is a menu item Export > Export Mode that allows you to export a signal as Pronto Hex.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ylaviolette wrote:
For some reason, the USB-UIRT doesn't work with the same pronto codes.

Any clue where the problem could be? Frequency support?

http://usbuirt.com/overview.htm

I can't help you there, I don't know anything about the USB-UIRT. I suggest you take the Pronto hex that I gave you to the UIRT forums here: http://usbuirt.com/phpBB3/ Oh, never mind, those forums looks like they've been abandoned.

My guess is that the signal is just simply too long for the UIRT.
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ylaviolette



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Works now. Since I have multiple emitters connected, the signal is much weaker so I had to get the emitter closer to the unit. All good.
Should be able to extract remaining codes & convert.

Just for my education, I guess this is an uncommon signal, therefore it doesn't replicate any standard protocol/device/sub device, right?

BTW, can you recommend another USB IR unit which supports pronto hex, multiple emitters and enough power to support long cable runs (15-20ft) keeping a decent signal strength?

Thanks again for your patience and support.
And thanks to the IRwidget =)
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Barf
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your captures are actually pretty bad: there are a lot of durations between 369 and 510; these are probably different measures of the "same" time. Normally the IRWidget provides fairly accurate timings. Note that the detector QSE157(?) has a very short range, half an inch (1 cm) for reliably readings. Keep lights away, in particular fluorescent light and sunlight.

Please try IrScrutinizer instead of IRScope. Things has evolved quite a bit since 2007 Wink

I own am USB-UIRT too, but that is essentially dead now. Main problem as I see it is that its API is built around a Windows DLL, dated some 10 years ago. Supporting it in another OS than (an ancient version of) Windows is therefore not really attractive. Lirc supported it many years ago, but in the transition to the new driver model, it did not make it.

Quote:
BTW, can you recommend another USB IR unit which supports pronto hex, multiple emitters and enough power to support long cable runs (15-20ft) keeping a decent signal strength?


My favorite IR receiver and sender is my own project in conjunction with IrScrutinizer. It has many advantages over the IRwidget, but you have to build it yourself. (Among other things, the detector (TSMP58000) has a much longer range.)

Quote:
Just for my education, I guess this is an uncommon signal, therefore it doesn't replicate any standard protocol/device/sub device, right?

It is not "standard", mainly because it is so long, and AC manufacturers tend to invent their own. There are a number of sites and projects that has analyzed the IR commands of different AC equipment. Possibly Google will find anything?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
Your captures are actually pretty bad: there are a lot of durations between 369 and 510; these are probably different measures of the "same" time.

I don't know that I agree with that. I found the times to be:

1 = +500 -1200
0 = +500 -400

which I know is unusual, but not unheard of. So basically, the ON time is fixed at 500 and the OFF time is multiples of 400, 3 units for ON and 1 unit for OFF.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ylaviolette wrote:
Just for my education, I guess this is an uncommon signal, therefore it doesn't replicate any standard protocol/device/sub device, right?

It is unusual when compared to regular IR signals, but not when compared to other A/C signals. The thing with A/C signals is they build everything into a single data stream.

For a normal IR signal, for a TV or DVD or whatever, there are separate codes for ON/OFF, Volume, Brightness, Color, etc but in an A/C signal, all of these settings are built into the one signal. So, if we were to fully decode the structure of your A/C signals, we would find that each signal says things like: ON, fan speed 4, temp 3, something else 5, etc.

If you're interested in decoding the signal, make a note of all the things you can change on the remote (ie, temp, fan speed, etc) and then capture the signal after pressing FAN SPEED UP several times. Then you'll probably need me to convert it into binary for you, but if we do that, you'll notice one portion of the signal changing each time. Then repeat the process with TEMP UP and we'll notice a different portion changing.
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ylaviolette



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback Barf/Rob,

It is indeed possible that my original capture had some noise as I was further than 1cm away; but honestly, as long as the copied signal works I don't really care.

I understand the way these signal are structured, however since I don't use special features (Fan, swing, sleep, timer, mode, etc), I won't invest too much time in "decoding" which part of the signal is involved for each component.

Essentially, for my automation purposes, all I need is an OFF signal (doesn't matter which temperature or features as it's irrelevant when turning off) and an ON signal for every Temperature level between 16-25.

I have recaptured the signals (attached) at close range (less than 1cm away) in the following order:

OFF (at 16C)
ON (at 16C - cool - fan auto - every other feature off)
...
...
ON (at 25C)

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25894


and just for the fun of it I did the same thing with SWING ON where your expert eyes should probably notice a constant change in the signal sequence which relate to the SWING setting.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25895

However when I try to import the Pronto codes (exported with IRscope as suggested above) in my URC remote, I get the following error:
"Malformed Pronto signal Burst Space duration out of range for format 0"

Any clue where the problem is?

---------------------------------------------

PS: I've checked for alternatives to the USB-UIRT (my usage is very basic so I won't go the DIY/custom way) and found these 2 which are supported in my home automation software (Homeseer)

- IRTrans : https://www.irtrans.de/en/
- Globalcache : https://www.globalcache.com/

IR trans sounds like a good solution, pretty much aligned with my basic usage IE: one device blasting the same signal to multiple emitters in parallel) just not sure if it will offer better signal strength than USB-UIRT.

They have a "High-power IR Blaster" emitter; but is the signal strength more dependent on the emitter (light) or the power source (unit) ?

If the first is true, does that mean I could change my current USB-UIRT emitters and improve signal (light) strength or am I limited by the unit power source ? So far I haven't bothered too much purchasing "official" emitters and essentially recycled every emitter that was laying around in my shop (from old remotes and other projects)

Let me know what you think!

Thanks again!
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ylaviolette wrote:
However when I try to import the Pronto codes (exported with IRscope as suggested above) in my URC remote, I get the following error:
"Malformed Pronto signal Burst Space duration out of range for format 0"

Any clue where the problem is?

It appears that the leadout time is too long, so all you need to do is change the very last item in the data string. So, for example, the first learned signal in the first file ends with "499A". If you replace that with "134B" it should work.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the signals you have captured in binary format (which is how we study them).

up
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 11110000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11010010
select
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00000100 11000000 11110000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11100010

OFF (at 16C), then ON (at 16C thru 25c) - cool - fan auto - every other feature off
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00000100 11000000 11110000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11100010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 01110000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 01010010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 10110000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 10010010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 00110000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00010010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 11010000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11100010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 10010000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 10100010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 11100000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11000010
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 01100000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 01000010

OFF (at 16C), then ON (at 16C thru 25c) - with SWING ON
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00000100 11000000 11110000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11111110
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 11110000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11000001
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 01110000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 01000001
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 10110000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 10000001
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 00110000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000001
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 01010000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 01111110
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 10010000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 10111110
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 00010000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00111110
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 11100000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 11011110
11000100 11010011 01100100 10000000 00000000 00100100 11000000 01100000 00011100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 01011110

I have broken up the data into 8-bit chunks (because 8 is a "round number" in the binary world). These chunks are known as "bytes".

If you look at the 6th byte (counting from 1, left to right), the 3rd bit appears to be the on/off flag. The data that is changing is in the 8th byte, or at least, the first half (or "nibble") of the byte, so that appears to be the temperature control. The 9th byte changes when you turned the swing on, or at least, 3 bits in the middle did, so that appears to be the swing control.

Also, now that I see more data, it appears that I got the polarity of the data wrong. By that I mean that my 1s and 0s should be reversed. I saw this looking at the temp data (in the 8th byte). I can also say that the data is LSB, which means that it increases on the left rather than on the right.

I'm pretty confident that the data in the 14th byte is a checksum. A checksum is a value that is derived from all the other data values taken together, it's their way of confirming that the signal is legit.

Here is the data again with the bits complemented. Temp 0 = 16c thru temp 9 = 25c

on
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 00001111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00101101 - temp 0
off
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11111011 00111111 00001111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00011101 - temp 0

OFF (at 16C), then ON (at 16C thru 25c) - cool - fan auto - every other feature off
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11111011 00111111 00001111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00011101 - temp 0
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 10001111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 10101101 - temp 1
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 01001111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 01101101 - temp 2
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 11001111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11101101 - temp 3
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 00101111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00011101 - temp 4
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 01101111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 01011101 - temp 6
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 00011111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00111101 - temp 8
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 10011111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 10111101 - temp 9

OFF (at 16C), then ON (at 16C thru 25c) - with SWING ON
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11111011 00111111 00001111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00000001 - temp 0
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 00001111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00111110 - temp 0
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 10001111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 10111110 - temp 1
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 01001111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 01111110 - temp 2
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 11001111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111110 - temp 3
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 10101111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 10000001 - temp 5
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 01101111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 01000001 - temp 6
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 11101111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11000001 - temp 7
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 00011111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 00100001 - temp 8
00111011 00101100 10011011 01111111 11111111 11011011 00111111 10011111 11100011 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 10100001 - temp 9
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ylaviolette wrote:
I understand the way these signal are structured, however since I don't use special features (Fan, swing, sleep, timer, mode, etc), I won't invest too much time in "decoding" which part of the signal is involved for each component.

If there are other things that you can turn on or off, or turn up or down, I'd certainly be interested to see some more learns. As you can probably tell, it's fun for us to decode these signals, and I would like to decode that checksum at some point too, but I'd need a complete set of learns to do that.
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ylaviolette



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Quote:
the first learned signal in the first file ends with "499A". If you replace that with "134B" it should work.


for some reason, I don't seem to have the same data in the Pronto extracts from IRscope , see my codes:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25896

can I just replace the last item in the data strings with 134B to get it working ?

Alternatively, Is there a way for me to convert your cleaned up binaries to pronto Hex myself ? (BTW there should be 11 binaries per set, I only see 8?)

Once I am clear on a conversion process I can master by myself, I can gladly upload a full set of learns with multiple combinations for analysis.

One last thing, the reason for the IRwidget was to capture a longer stream (vs USBUIRT or URC remote); I see in IRscope "capture duration: 700ms" (seems to be custom and I belive the IRwidget can go up to 15s); how does this compare to USBUIRT or URC remote?

Thx again.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the decodes straight from your Pronto decodes. I left the leadout pairs in these (eg "0013 54E8"). I'm saying that you need to replace that large 5000 number with something smaller like 134B.

0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111100101111111111111111111111111111111111111111111100011101 0013 54E8 - temp 4
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111111110110011111100001111111111111111111111111111111111111111111100011101 0013 54E8 - temp 0
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111110001111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110101101 0013 5507 - temp 1
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111101001111111111111111111111111111111111111111111101101101 0013 5507 - temp 2
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111111001111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111101101 0013 5543 - temp 3
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111100101111111111111111111111111111111111111111111100011101 0013 54E8 - temp 4
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111110101111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110011101 0013 5525 - temp 5
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111101101111111111111111111111111111111111111111111101011101 0013 5525 - temp 6
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111111101111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111011101 0013 5561 - temp 7
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111100011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111100111101 0013 5507 - temp 8
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111110011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110111101 0013 5543 - temp 9


0011101100101100100110110111111111111111111110110011111100001111111000111111111111111111111111111111111100000001 0013 5434 - temp 0
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111100001111111000111111111111111111111111111111111100111110 0013 548E - temp 0
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111110001111111000111111111111111111111111111111111110111110 0013 54CA - temp 1
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111101001111111000111111111111111111111111111111111101111110 0013 54CA - temp 2
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111111001111111000111111111111111111111111111111111111111110 0013 5507 - temp 3
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111100101111111000111111111111111111111111111111111100000001 0013 5434 - temp 4
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111110101111111000111111111111111111111111111111111110000001 0013 5470 - temp 5
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111101101111111000111111111111111111111111111111111101000001 0013 5470 - temp 6
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111111101111111000111111111111111111111111111111111111000001 0013 54AC - temp 7
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111100011111111000111111111111111111111111111111111100100001 0013 5452 - temp 8
0011101100101100100110110111111111111111110110110011111110011111111000111111111111111111111111111111111110100001 0013 548E - temp 9
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Barf
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ylaviolette wrote:

- IRTrans : https://www.irtrans.de/en/
- Globalcache : https://www.globalcache.com/

IR trans sounds like a good solution, pretty much aligned with my basic usage IE: one device blasting the same signal to multiple emitters in parallel) just not sure if it will offer better signal strength than USB-UIRT.

The firm is located just in the vicinity from me Wink

They appear to be slowly dying, however, I guess they still sell. The one I would recommend is the Ethernet model, flash ("data base") and POE not essential. The hardware is somewhat "clunky", a high-power LED-array fixed to the housing, so considerable creativity is requred to take advantage of it. I have one, was mounted on a loudspeaker wall mount (Vogel's VLB-50). It can also capture signals including frequency measurements. IrScrutinizer supports sending through the UDP API. Note that the statement that their server software is open source is outright wrong and may not be available for your system, thus better to use the Ethernet model.

Global cache is probably the best alternative. The Flex is quite ... flexible, and can also quite well capture signals. (Don't use their iLearn software, use IrScrutinizer instead.) Avoid the GC-100 models; they do not have upgradable firmware and can only handle one simultaneous connection (IIRC). It is fully supported by IrScrutinizer, sending and capturing.

Using one stick-on emitter per device is normally better than a high power "blaster", unless you have very many devices.
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ylaviolette



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob:

as instructed changing the leadout to 134B on any code works perfectly.
I also had an inversion in the first set of codes (OFF and 16C)
I have uploaded the working Pronto Hex here:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25897

If you'd like to test something else let me know, I'll be glad to help.

Barf:

Thanks for the feedback, the Flex sounds perfect, just hadn't found it as they have a much larger line of products.

a few questions:

- I agree that the best scenario is stick on emitters, however in some instances (like the AC discussed in this thread) the device is hard to reach (top of staircase) and a strong emitter would come in handy. However I am still unsure what drives/impacts the signal strength : power supply, unit quality, number of connected emitters, type of emitters, other? Based on testing done on my USB-UIRT, I can attach a lot of emitters in parallel but power degrades proportionally to the point I have about 3 feet of range. Fine for stick on but unusable for my AC.

- Can I reuse my existing emitters and cabling (as mentioned, recycled emitters from old remotes + standard small gauge 2wire cabling)

- Since codes are managed by my home automation server, what is the benefit of the flash database?

- What about the Wifi version, seems like a good option, any downsides?

- Does it support Pronto Hex as I have a ton of existing codes and not sure I want to redo everything (unless conversion is simple).

Thx for your help!
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