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URC-6440/OARUSB04G Extender 1.03 now available
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject: URC-6440/OARUSB04G Extender 1.03 now available Reply with quote

This extender, version 1.03, is a major enhancement to versions 1.00 and 1.01 of the extender for the URC-6440. It is now available both for the European URC-6440 and the US equivalent remote, the OARUSB04G. There are separate zip packages for the two remotes: URC-6440 Extender v1.03 and OARUSB04G Extender v1.03. For use with RMIR, these extenders require RMIR v2.03 Build 6 or later.

Due to the unique nature of Simpleset remotes, these extenders can be installed and set up without the use of any of the JP1 tools. They are supplied as a settings.bin file to be copied to the external drive that the remote presents when connected to a PC or Mac. All features and setup procedures of the unextended remote are retained, including the learning capability, either unchanged or in an improved form. In addition, all the new features provided by the extender can also be set up through the remote itself, other than five Special Functions (Long Key Press etc., see below). It is not so much an extender as a software upgrade that turns the remote into a new one with far greater capabilities than the original. The package includes a 26-page manual in PDF form that gives details of all the setup procedures, many of which work also on the unextended remote despite not being mentioned in the original documentation.

The extender increases the number of supported devices from four to twelve and the number of activities (Combo modes) from two to six. All devices and activities, including the new ones, can be set up without RMIR. In the unextended remote, activities without RMIR are limited to a choice of four pre-defined setups, but the extender gives much greater flexibility in how they are set up. It allows macros to be nested, and both traditional and device-specific (DSM) macros can be created without RMIR. There is a facility to control the duration for which the signals within a macro sequence are sent. The unextended remote supports DSMs but they can be set up only with RMIR. Traditional macros can be set up without it, though the procedure for doing so is not in the original documentation. The extender provides a Shift key, by giving a dual use to the List button, that is used to access the additional devices and activities and which also enables shifted and XShifted functions to be added to any button by means of a key move. Again this can be done without RMIR.

In contrast to the unextended remote, macros operate in Combo modes. They can also be placed on the Device and Combo buttons (for all 12 devices and 6 Combo modes), where the are performed after the device or combo mode has been selected.

The extender includes the Special Functions that are common to most extenders, namely Long and Double Keypress (LKP, DKP), ToadTog, Device Multiplexer and Pause, in addition to DSMs mentioned above. These are the only features of the extender that require RMIR for their setup. Full details about them and their setup are given in the manual. Note that installation and setup of the remote with RMIR requires RMIR v2.03 Build 6 or later or later.

The announcement thread for versions 1.00 and 1.01 of the extender for the URC-6440 is available here.
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Graham


Last edited by mathdon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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ncoig



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:51 pm    Post subject: Thank you! Reply with quote

What a beautiful piece of work! I've been at it all afternoon, and it's taken me some time to get used to this extender over my old 1994's.

In any event, I spent the better part of the afternoon figuring out my infinite loop issues in device-key macros. My old extender had a "DEV_xxx" key to insert to select the device without "pressing" the key in the macro sequence. I can't see any easy way to do this here.

I could, of course, put all my devices on the XXXX2s so there is not an actual device on the main 4 devs, but that seems impractical. I did RTFM, and saw the provision with the DCRestore, which would be great if my macros didn't call functions from 2 or 3 devices, necessitating the "button press" of multiple physical buttons which, themselves, contain macros.

Essentially, each device button has it's own "setup macro" which I'm sure loads of people do. So, forgive me, I've searched the forums until I glaze over, and don't see how this might be accomplished... tips?

Again, awesome job with this. I think this unit could be my next "15-1994"!

-N
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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Location: Hants, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said ncoig, me too! Mr. Green A fantastic development.

Just as when un-extended, the device buttons are defined by allocating upgrades. As usual without the extender, just pressing a device button selects that device mode, so that no set up macro is needed.
At the end of a discursive macro, 'DCRestore' restores the device state at the start of the macro/outer macro, perhaps to avoid recursion.

I found this was useful: In RMIR's Special Functions, Device button: TV, Key: TV... Type: LKP(2)... Function: [Short]:Phantom(n):[Long]:<none> .... (*or vice versa if preferred)
In this example, although LKP is a DSM, pressing the device button 'TV', in any mode:
- first puts the remote into its TV device mode
- only if it was a short press (less than e.g. '2') does it do the macro on Phantom(n)

Perhaps TV's 'InputTV' could be in place of a phantom button, or a string of commands, so that
a short press would [select TV device mode + send InputTV etc.] and a longer press would just [select TV mode] (*or vice versa if preferred)
.


Last edited by tranx on Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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ncoig



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers! Appreciating the input.

So if I am understanding you correctly, you're suggesting I setup a normal press to initiate the macro, but have the LKP be called by the macro, within which are the commands which are problematic? I don't see how that would be much different from calling Phantom keys as "subroutines" which is what I have now.

Also, the Special Function keys are DSMs, so how would that work "in any mode?"

By way of example, my POWER button is mapped to turn everything off, from any mode.

It calls the following:
1. DVD
2. DISCRETE OFF
3. TV
4. DISCRETE OFF

However, when it calls #1, above, it "Presses" the DVD key, which calls:
TV
DISCRETE ON
HDMI 1 SELECTED
DVD
DISCRETE ON


So, in turning everything off, my remote turns it on... Smile


-N
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't see how that would be much different from calling Phantom keys as "subroutines" which is what I have now.
- agreed, that would have been the same.
Quote:
Also, the Special Function keys are DSMs, so how would that work "in any mode?"
- by putting them on the device buttons where, perhaps not obviously, they would actually be available in any mode (as are the device buttons themselves).
e.g. on Device button =TV, Key= TV, an LKP type of DSM could provide the functions (macros) for the AllOn/AllOff macros which you want.
In any mode, pressing the TV button could do:-
ShortPress:- DVD:DiscreteOn:TV:DiscreteOn
LongPress:- DVD:DiscreteOff:TV:DiscreteOff

[Edit: to correct errors, and the rest is deleted as being irrelevant since mathdon has addressed the main question, below]


Last edited by tranx on Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:35 pm; edited 3 times in total
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncoig wrote:
My old extender had a "DEV_xxx" key to insert to select the device without "pressing" the key in the macro sequence. I can't see any easy way to do this here.

If I understand you correctly, you have a device key with a macro on it and want to be able to select that device within a macro without running the macro on the device key. I have produced a revised .bin file for the extender for the OARUSB04G for you to test, in which I have added this capability.

The extender version in this test is still 1.03 and you should regard it as experimental. It adds the following new syntax into a macro sequence: Hold followed by a Device key will select the device without running any macro on that device key. If the Hold is omitted, the device would be selected but the macro would also run.

To use the revised code, just save your present setup for the extender as a .rmir file, copy the .bin file to the remote after renaming it settings.bin, then use RMIR to upload the saved .rmir file back to the remote.

Please report if this works and meets your need. I will wait to see if any bugs get reported, or any other issues such as yours arise that I can meet, and in due course will post an official version 1.04 with this addition and any other fixes or improvements that get made.
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ncoig



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do understand correctly, thank you. I have tried the revised extender, and it would appear to work properly, but between this post and mine, I had reworked the remote to use LKP to launch, thus largely obviating the issue. However, as the functionality was there, I reworked some things to take advantage, thank you.

HOWEVER, I'm not sure if this is related to this modification, but I have the following situation:

In Special Protocols, I have setup several LKP items, one on each color key. Each color key has a short function of SHIFT-[THE COLOR] and a long function of a PhantomX, which calls a global macro.

e.g.,
TV RED LKP(2) [Short]:Shift-Red [Long]:Phantom8

This works as expected, and the macro fires on the long, and the native RED function transmits on the short.

Unfortunately, when I try to take this global, per instructions found elsewhere in this forum, the keypress does nothing. My global macro is setup thusly:

RED Hold;TV;Red

I know the global macro fires, because it puts the remote in TV mode, and obviously once there, a subsequent press will fire the commands as expected, but it does not behave as I think it would globally.

That said, I don't THINK this has to do with the change you made here, but since it presented once I started using the HOLD function, I thought perhaps it might be relevant.
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ncoig



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another note, (which may be an RMIR issue, not an extender issue) is that for some reason, when using Shifted Keys in global macros, or the shifted "OK" button, (and likely others) when the macro is created, all appears as normal. However, if you edit the button sequence, it changes (at least, it appears to) the assigned key to "0" and both SHIFT and XSHIFT are grey-checked. In fact, even if it appears normally, when you double click the assigned key, it will show it's assigned to "0". I'm not sure if that is just an appearance issue, but FWIW, it's a very reproducible and consistent bug.

-N
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ncoig



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncoig wrote:

In Special Protocols, I have setup several LKP items, one on each color key. Each color key has a short function of SHIFT-[THE COLOR] and a long function of a PhantomX, which calls a global macro.


So after extensive testing and noodling, I am going on out a limb to say there is either a caveat in the macro nature here, or there's a bug.

With the Global macro:
BLUE-> DCSave;Hold;TV;1;Vol+;Hold;STB;1;Hold;DVD;1;DCRestore
and Special Function:
Vol+-> DSM 0;0;0

I get the expected one flash for each of the three first devices, with the intervening 3 flashes from the TV. All works well from any device.

Then when I make the one change to LKP or DKP, the macro fires and shows the one blip on each device, but evidently does nothing with the Special Function it is supposed to call. No loops, no hangs, but it just doesn't even appear to run the doggone second macro??


-N


PS - a related query, for which I presume the answer is no: Is it possible to have the SKP be a "local" button press and the LKP be a "global" button press?

IOW, I want each device to, on the short press, send its native key, and on a LKP, I want the macro to always be the same.

In my example, each color key (Blue, Red, etc) has a native function on my Sony DVD, TiVo, etc. so I want the short press to send those commands in the device upgrade; however, on the long presses I want it always to send a macro list that is common. Obviously, i can create 16 special functions, but ...

The only thing I could come up with was to try and do a DCRestore in the "Short" sequence of the inner DSM that pulls back in the original device that was selected prior to the outside global macro... but since I can't get it to work per the above, I can't yet test that...
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncoig wrote:
And another note, (which may be an RMIR issue, not an extender issue) is that for some reason, when using Shifted Keys in global macros, or the shifted "OK" button, (and likely others) when the macro is created, all appears as normal. However, if you edit the button sequence, it changes (at least, it appears to) the assigned key to "0" and both SHIFT and XSHIFT are grey-checked. In fact, even if it appears normally, when you double click the assigned key, it will show it's assigned to "0". I'm not sure if that is just an appearance issue, but FWIW, it's a very reproducible and consistent bug.

Without having tried the experimental .bin file with OARUSB04G, I was able to confirm this problem for a global macro, when the bound key is edited from an un-shifted to a shifted key, or if an attempt is made to a edit an existing macro which had initially been bound without trouble to a shifted key
...............
Re. LKP/DKP on buttons not working when called by another macro, I think the manual refers to this "Note that although LKP and DKP send macros, they cannot be included as inner macros in a nested macro as there would be no meaning to the duration. If so included, they simply have no effect. On the other hand, a ToadTog can be included within another macro." As a side effect LKP/DKP can be put on device buttons, where they will not get in the way of the simple device changes ordered by another macro, as you have described.
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In my example, each color key (Blue, Red, etc) has a native function on my Sony DVD, TiVo, etc. so I want the short press to send those commands in the device upgrade; however, on the long presses I want it always to send a macro list that is common. Obviously, i can create 16 special functions, but ...
On button 'x', you could set up a macro to perform the 'common macro list', with DCSave (which is done by default) at the start and DCRestore at the end,
and test it to make sure it does what you want and that nothing is interfering.
If all is well, for each color key add button 'x' as the only long press key of its LKP special function, which should do it.


Last edited by tranx on Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncoig wrote:
when using Shifted Keys in global macros, or the shifted "OK" button, (and likely others) when the macro is created, all appears as normal. However, if you edit the button sequence, it changes (at least, it appears to) the assigned key to "0" and both SHIFT and XSHIFT are grey-checked.

This is a bug and I have now fixed it.

Your macro "bug" is not a bug, as tranx has pointed out, as there is a caveat in the manual that states that LKP/DKP cannot be included in a macro, and if they are then that key is completely ignored. I think what you are trying to do is create a global LKP/DKP. You ask

Quote:
Is it possible to have the SKP be a "local" button press and the LKP be a "global" button press? I want each device to, on the short press, send its native key, and on a LKP, I want the macro to always be the same.

I take this to mean that both parts are global, as if you could put a global LKP on Red with Short=Shift-Red, Long=macro that sets the devices required, then on all devices a short Red would send the native Red function of the selected device but a long Red would always send the same thing.

I have wondered in the past if there is a need for global Special Functions, but have never seen anyone ask for them. I have had a go at implementing them and will post revised programs shortly for you to test. It needs a collection of related changes, so there will be a new .bin file and new RDF for the remote and a revised RMIR .jar file. The use is simple. On the drop-down box for Device Button in the Special Functions tab and its dialog, there will be a new value <none> at the bottom. It is possible to create a global DSM in this way, and if you save and re-load a .rmir file it will remain a global DSM, but if you upload to the remote and download again it will appear on the normal Macros tab as a global DSM simply a normal global macro. Every other global special function will download and still show on the Special Functions tab.
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ncoig



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tranx"]
ncoig wrote:

...............
Re. LKP/DKP on buttons not working when called by another macro, I think the manual refers to this "Note that although LKP and DKP send macros, they cannot be included as inner macros in a nested macro as there would be no meaning to the duration. If so included, they simply have no effect. .


This is why I am confused, I guess. There are many other posts that reference this as possible, but I guess you are saying this extender is the exception?

-N
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncoig wrote:
There are many other posts that reference this as possible, but I guess you are saying this extender is the exception?

This extender is like NO OTHER. Its implementation bears no relation to that of any other extender and you should not assume anything holds that you read about from other extenders. I am not aware of any other extenders that increase the number of device buttons, still allow learning, and many other things that this extender does, so it is not surprising if they work differently in some ways.

Here is the promised revision that includes global special functions. As I mentioned, there is a new .bin file and RDF for the extender and a new .jar file for RMIR. For Special Functions it is now possible to set the device button to <none>. Please try it and report back.
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ncoig



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
ncoig wrote:
There are many other posts that reference this as possible, but I guess you are saying this extender is the exception?

This extender is like NO OTHER.

[....]

Here is the promised revision that includes global special functions. As I mentioned, there is a new .bin file and RDF for the extender and a new .jar file for RMIR. For Special Functions it is now possible to set the device button to <none>. Please try it and report back.


WOW! Really. Wow. This is precisely what I've been trying to accomplish the last few days, what a relief to be able to do it, and more!

Truly, thank you. This is exceedingly helpful for my wife to use the remote without complaining that she "needs a manual".

Works like a champ!!!

-N
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