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X10 Home Security
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:43 am    Post subject: X10 Home Security Reply with quote

[Update: 11/24/2009]The non-matching portion of the signal mentioned below is not used for anything and never had been.

Does anyone here have any X10 Home Security devices?

As I mentioned in the other X10 thread, I've been looking at the signal generated by the official HOME/0167 setup code recently. The signal comprises two parts, one that kinda matches the standard X10 "Home Automation" IR signals (used with the IR543) box, and one that doesn't.

I'm assuming the non-matching part is used to control X10 Home Security devices as the HOME/0167 code is supposed to support both, but I've never seen an original X10 Home Security signal to compare it with.

Therefore, if anyone here has any X10 Home Security devices, could you please let me know. If you have an X10 supplied remote that works them via the IR543 box, even better. In that case I'd like you to learn the signals using a JP1 learning remote (if you have one) or let me borrow the remote (if you don't). Once I've captured the signals I'll make an upgrade that I'd like you to test.

Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by The Robman on Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JimWise



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, not quite three years since the one and only post in this thread, looks like an active topic to me Wink.

I am just getting started with JP1 (just got a couple of OFA-9910 remotes and have the parts to put together a JP1 interface cable on the way.) Although I already have the X10 PowerMid it looks like I'll have to pick up an IR543. I have a handful of X10 devices along with the X10 Home Security system. It would be very nice to be able to turn the security system on and off with my 9910 remote since I try to keep the security remotes out of sight, but then it is a bit of a hassle to grab one of them to turn off the system before opening the door when someone stops by.

I do not know of any X10 security remotes that use IR, all the remotes that I know of that work with the security signals are purely RF. Would it be possible to catch the RF signal somehow and then figure out what IR signal could be sent to the IR543 to regenerate the proper RF signal?

I would definitely like to get my 9910 to work with the X10 security codes if at all possible. Would using a device such as the one described by Tommy Tyler in the thread "Record signals on your PC from any RF or IR remote on earth" help with determining what IR codes to use?

Let me know if this has already been figured out or if I can help in any way.

Jim
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Jim. I figured I'd give this thread until it's 3rd birthday before giving up waiting for a response! Smile

As you can see, even though quite a few people use X10 stuff for automation purposes, not many people use it for security.

In order for you to be able to use any IR remote to work your X10 stuff, you will indeed need an IR543 box, but at just $20 it's a very worthwhile addition to your X10 setup.

Once you have an IR543 box, I imagine that you will be able to use the standard X10 codes to work the security functions, but I'd love for you to be able to confirm this. If you look at the advanced code list for the HOME/0167 code, you'll notice that it includes functions like...

EFC Function
018 Arm (Max)
242 Arm (Min)
018 Delay Away Arm
210 Delay Home Arm
082 Disarm
210 HomeArm(Max)
178 HomeArm(Min)
242 Inst Away Arm
178 Inst Home Arm
019 Medic Alarm
114 Panic
146 Sec Light Off
050 Sec Light On
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JimWise



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As you can see, even though quite a few people use X10 stuff for automation purposes, not many people use it for security.


Well, I never planned on getting into the security stuff, but three guys broke into my apartment this past October (while I was home, but I was in the shower and never heard a thing. Was only upstairs for 15 minutes, but that was long enough for them to take my notebook computer, two camcorders, and a few other things.) After that I wanted a security system, but didn't want to pay monthly fees since that adds up to quite a bit over the years, MUCH more than my insurance deductible, and by the time a security person responds to the alarm the damage would have already been done.

It will be a while (a week or two or three...) before I will be able to dig into this (and also having to start from the very basics and learn my way around working with JP1), but it looks very promosing Smile.

The codes you listed appear to cover absolutely everything on both of the Security Remotes (the keychain and the palm remotes), along with a few extras. I do not have the Personal Assistant Units (I'm surprised that anyone still sells those types things, any old cell phone even with no active service plan will give you free, direct access to 911) so will not be able to test out the "Medic Alarm" code. I should be able to test all of the others, and it will be interesting to find out what the difference is between a few of the codes such as "Arm (Min)", "HomeArm(Min)", and "Inst Home Arm".

Ah, and one other quirk that just hit me. Apparently each security remote puts out some unique ID code prior to the security commands. Whenever a new security remote is added to the system you have to put the security base in the "Install" mode and send a signal from the security remote so it knows to recognize that remote as part of your setup. This prevents a potential thief from purchasing an X10 security remote to disable someone else's system.

I'll have to remember to put my security system into the "Install" mode to see if I can add the IR543 as a "security remote" when I try to test this out, and if anyone else out there wants to play around they will have to remember to do the same.

Jim
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimWise wrote:
It will be a while (a week or two or three...) before I will be able to dig into this (and also having to start from the very basics and learn my way around working with JP1), but it looks very promosing Smile.

Even without JP1, once you get your IR543 box you can test the EFCs that I posted earlier direct from the remote, using the SETUP+nnn test method. The IR543 normally sells for $30-$40, but you can get it for $20 from homeautomationnet.com.

To use that method, if you already have HOME/0167 assigned to the active device button, all you need to do is tap the SETUP button and then enter the 3-digit code. For example, SETUP+087 should send the "Disarm" signal.

Each IR543 box has a "house code" dial on it, so you might need to sync this up with your security system.

As for the fear that the next burgler might use your remote to disable the security system, while that might be a concern if you were to leave the official X10 remotes (with the labelled buttons) lying around, I doubt that it will be an issue with your "One For All" remote where you will be able to assign the security functions to any buttons you like. (In other words, I can't see a burgler sitting down and messing with your remote to see if any of the buttons will disable the security).
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GLT



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here's a two-for-one on the IR543's:

http://www.x10.com/promotions/ir543_2f1_0829.html

$11 each.

I have the DS7000 X10 security system and like it quite a bit for what it does - but many don't. May want to check this forum for more info:

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?board=9.0

I do not see HOW you could possibly arm or disarm it with an IR remote and an IR543. The DS7000 arms either at the console or through the use of an RF remote. As was mentioned, each remote must be "registered"with the security console before it will work. The remotes send out a "security code" which the console learns and then works with that remote.

However, X10's program "Active Home Pro " and an add-on module called "OnAlert" can arm the system using the RF sending capabilities of the CM15A.

http://www.x10.com/promotions/cm15a_ed_freesuite_onalert_0115.html

(Note most people are pretty unhappy with the receive range of the CM15A and the software in general.)

I can imagine you could set up a macro in Active Home Pro so that when the IR543 sent a POWERLINE code such as A1 on (in response to an IR signal) - the program could then arm the system. But first, AHP must "learn" the security code from an RF security remote.

(Note I believe the computer must be on and running AHP for this to work.)

What is a mystery is what the EFC codes Rob found do. It seems, if memory serves, that you can tell an X-10 remote to send either IR or RF by setting up the X-10 button using codes 998 or 999. Maybe then an X-10 RF remote could be registered with the DS7000 console and be able to arm it. This seems a little far fetched. (When I press setup and the three EFC #'s, I seem to get 3 transmissions from the remote?)

I have all of the above mentioned equipment and software. If anyone would like me to try some SPECIFIC tests, please let me know.

GLT

EDIT: Note the IR543 does NOT put out RF signals - it puts out POWERLINE signals. So there is no way to register it with the DS7000. Powerline signals can be flakey due to many things including powerline noise (PC power supplies, UPS's, compact flourescents etc.) and coupling of the two 120V legs of a US 240V home power system. So although the above AHP solution should probably work, it would still not be a reliable way to arm/disarm the DS7000.)


Last edited by GLT on Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GLT wrote:
(When I press setup and the three EFC #'s, I seem to get 3 transmissions from the remote?)

The red LED lights up when you press the numeric buttons, but the remote isn't sending anything. If you want to test the concept, find the EFC for MUTE (or something similar) for your TV, then do the test using that EFC. If you're right, you'll change to channel 123 (or whatever the EFC is), if I'm right the TV's sound will be muted.
GLT wrote:
Note the IR543 does NOT put out RF signals - it puts out POWERLINE signals.

Right. Many X10 users think they need an RF signal because that's how their X10 remotes communicate with the RF transceivers, but all the RF tranceivers do is convert the RF signals into POWERLINE signals, just like how the IR543 converts IR signals into POWERLINE signals.

How this all works with the security systems, I have no idea.

Also, it's quite possible that those EFCs that I posted where for some other X10 security system that may or may not still be in circulation.
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GLT



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Also, it's quite possible that those EFCs that I posted where for some other X10 security system that may or may not still be in circulation."

I would guess that is the case.

I've tried the EFC's just to see if the console would recognize any RF from the X10 A/V remote - it doesn't.

Thanks,

GLT

BTW, the code for setting up an X-10 UR24A remote to send IR on the X-10 button is 014, RF = 013. not the 999 and 998 mentioned above.


Last edited by GLT on Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GLT wrote:
When I press setup and the three EFC #'s, I seem to get 3 transmissions from the remote?

I've tried the EFC's just to see if the console would recognize any RF from the X10 A/V remote - it doesn't.
For clarification, are you trying those EFC's from a JP1 remote or the X10 remote?
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GLT



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well since there is no way the IR543 could send security codes -
I tried them using the the X-10 button on an X-10 remote set up to send RF.

No point in trying to send them via IR on a JP1 remote to an IR543. And probably no point in doing what I tried either.

GLT
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GLT wrote:
I tried them using the the X-10 button on an X-10 remote set up to send RF.

And probably no point in doing what I tried either.
The Setup+EFC method, and the EFC's themselves, are unique features of UEI remotes. They're probably not supported by the X10 remote.
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JimWise



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was out of town for a bit, but am back and now have the IR543, ActiveHome Pro, a range of old x10 remotes, etc so can play around a bit. It looks like GLT has all the hardware/software and more knowledge about this than I do and has played around without any luck so far, so not sure if there is much point with me playing around with it.

I did have a question about the "Setup" button that you say to press before entering the EFC. I have my OFA-9910 set up to control my x10 modules through the IR543 but that is just using Power, Mute, or a single number then the volume and channel buttons. What is the "Setup" button that allows you to enter a three digit code? To test if the remote is correctly sending an EFC it looks to me like it would be a good idea to try the x10 046 EFC with the IR543 for "All Lights On" instead of trying to find an EFC for a TV function or something like that.

If it is not possible to directly turn the x10 security system on and off with a JP1 remote it looks like I should be able to do it through a macro with OnAlert.

Jim
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimWise wrote:


I did have a question about the "Setup" button that you say to press before entering the EFC. I have my OFA-9910 ... What is the "Setup" button that allows you to enter a three digit code?


On the 9910, it's the recessed "SET" (or it might be a green "P") button on the bottom right of the remote, symmetrically placed vis-a-vis the "Light" button.
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JimWise



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GLT wrote:
However, X10's program "Active Home Pro " and an add-on module called "OnAlert" can arm the system using the RF sending capabilities of the CM15A.


Does the ActiveHome Pro device send out an RF signal or just send the signal to the Security Console through the powerline?


GLT wrote:
Powerline signals can be flakey due to many things including powerline noise (PC power supplies, UPS's, compact flourescents etc.) and coupling of the two 120V legs of a US 240V home power system. So although the above AHP solution should probably work, it would still not be a reliable way to arm/disarm the DS7000.)


The slight flakiness of powerline vs RF is not a major concern since I would only be using the powerline method while I was actually at home. The Security Console puts out an audible signal when it is enabled and disabled so I would know if it got the signal or not. I have a keychain remote for the security system that I would still use when leaving the apartment since I will still need to pull out my keys to lock up.

Jim
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JimWise



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Capn Trips. I was used to always holding down the SET button to set up the remote, didn't know I could just press it like any other button to get into the EFC mode for the extra x10 functions.

I was able to turn on all my lights using Setup-046 with the IR543, but was unable to get any of the security codes to even be picked up by the IR543, let alone have them sent through the powerline.

When using an EFC, the remote's Send LED does not light up until I press the third digit of the code, so I know I was in the right mode during my tests. The LED on the IR543 only lit up when a non-security x10 EFC was sent from my remote though, it did not light up at all when I tried any of the Security codes. I put my remote in the TV mode and while it controlled my TV it did not cause the IR543 to light up at all, so apparently the IR543 will not light up when it receives any IR signal, but only lights up when it receives an IR signal for an x10 command that it recognizes and will pass along through the powerline.

Jim
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