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OARI06G Slow on repeated presses...normal?
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Vyrolan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 168
Location: Chicago, IL

                    
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: OARI06G Slow on repeated presses...normal? Reply with quote

So thanks to the newer RMIR versions of late, I was able to program my OARI06G remotes. My wife and I both kinda like the look and feel of this remote (I keep a different one handy with tons more buttons for when s**t gets real).

Unfortunately, one thing about has really been annoying me. I use the "30 second skip" on DirecTV a lot. I watch sports and I know exactly how long the timeouts are going to be, so I'll just hit the 30s skip say 6 times. On any other remote (the OEM DirecTV remote, a RCA RCRP05B, or a URC-7781), those key presses go through immediately. I just nail the button and the counter on screen for the skip goes almost immediately to 6.

However, with the OARI06G, it will go quickly to 2, and then after about a second go to 4, then after another second go to 5...or some similar scenario. It rarely if ever actually gets the total number correct, and they seem to roll in very slowly. It's so bizarre. The LED blinks as fast as I hit the button, but it's like the DirecTV box seems to respond slow or something. It does it on both DirecTV boxes, and it doesn't do it with any other remote, so I know it's the OARI06G somehow, but I haven't the foggiest what it might be.

Has anyone ever heard of or experienced such a situation?
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Vyrolan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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Location: Chicago, IL

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an aside, my wife said she noticed the same behavior on the other OARI06G in the living room, so it's not just a bad remote (unless somehow both are bad) or a crazy user (unless we're both crazy).

I may reset one and just set it up without JP1 to see how it works then. I consider it excessively unlikely that's the problem, but I guess the DirecTV does use a protocol upgrade so maybe somehow those aren't working as well as we thought? I dunno...grasping at straws. =|
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3FG
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would check with a digital camera to see if the IR flashes are all coming in one burst.

Are you using the built in 0162 executor? If you apply whatever upgrade you've got in the OARI06G to the RCRP05B, does the RCRP05B act differently?
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Vyrolan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just grabbed the DirecTV upgrade from the file section. I believe it was using a protocol upgrade. The exact same upgrade was used in my RCA and the URC-7781 (using extender on both of those) and neither of them act the same way.
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Vyrolan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
Are you using the built in 0162 executor? If you apply whatever upgrade you've got in the OARI06G to the RCRP05B, does the RCRP05B act differently?

So on the RCRP05B, the upgrade is using the built-in 0162. On the 7781, it uses a protocol upgrade.

Since you asked, I paid more attention. In fact, the RCRP05B exhibits the same problem, but it is much more subtle than on the OARI06G. I can still produce the same bad behavior with the RCRP05B, but the lag isn't quite as bad. It is there for sure though.

Can I force it to you use the protocol upgrade? Would that even help (I'm guessing no)?
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3FG
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that the OARI06G and the RCRP05B have identical executors.

However, looking at the DirecTV entry in DecodeIR.html (or DecodeIR in the Wiki), we see that the frequency and/or leadout times are not always the same. You can adjust the leadout time and frequency in RM, apparently. Why not learn the IR signal from the OEM remote, and then try to match that signal? Also see the executor John Fine wrote, in case you decide to cusotmize further..
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirecTV boxes are notoriously slow. I doubt tweaking the protocol will have any effect. The way you've described it, you do the 6 presses and you're done. Seconds later they stack up in on the DVR. So you finished sending the signals seconds before and the DVR is taking it's time processing them or ignoring a few Sounds like the problem is on the DVR side. But there is a possiblity the OAR is sending a weaker signal. Does it behave the same with fresh batteries?

In any case, all my DirecTV boxes acted just a randomly and laggy as yours for years. I used to use a long press of skip to do a 6 skip macro. That seemed to help a little, since I could space them out a bit if I wanted. Do you know how to change from slip to skip, so all 6 skips are instantaneous? If not, look that up at dbstalk.com. There's a keyword search to enable it, but I forget the details. Haven't had DirecTV the past few years.

Lastly, since UEI makes all the remotes in question, including the original DirecTV remote, chances are very high all the protocols are exactly the same.
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Vyrolan



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
DirecTV boxes are notoriously slow. I doubt tweaking the protocol will have any effect. The way you've described it, you do the 6 presses and you're done. Seconds later they stack up in on the DVR. So you finished sending the signals seconds before and the DVR is taking it's time processing them or ignoring a few Sounds like the problem is on the DVR side.

mdavej wrote:
Lastly, since UEI makes all the remotes in question, including the original DirecTV remote, chances are very high all the protocols are exactly the same.

Then why is it perfect with no lag whatsoever with the OEM remote. =/ I may learn the signal from my various ones and from the OEM and compare the timings and the IRScope graphs.

mdavej wrote:
In any case, all my DirecTV boxes acted just a randomly and laggy as yours for years. I used to use a long press of skip to do a 6 skip macro. That seemed to help a little, since I could space them out a bit if I wanted. Do you know how to change from slip to skip, so all 6 skips are instantaneous? If not, look that up at dbstalk.com. There's a keyword search to enable it, but I forget the details. Haven't had DirecTV the past few years.

Yea I could macro it, but it's also adhoc...for NBA games, I do 2 for a 20-second timeout (yep, 60 seconds for a 20-second timeout) but 3 if it's a national tv game (more commercials on those!)...4 for a full timeout (5 on national tv)...6 between quarters (+1 again national tv).

I actually used to use the skip instead of the slip, because I was so used to instant skip from my MythTV. However more recently I had been using slip instead and actually kinda like seeing the number of slips that are queued up and the few frames in the middle there to know if I missed something. (Although skip is MUCH BETTER with whole-home dvr because slip is super slow over the network.) Maybe I'll just switch back to skip and then it won't matter. /shrug

Thanks for the info 3FG and mdavej...I'm going to keep digging into it...will post any findings or questions that arise.
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Vyrolan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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Location: Chicago, IL

                    
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
However, looking at the DirecTV entry in DecodeIR.html (or DecodeIR in the Wiki), we see that the frequency and/or leadout times are not always the same. You can adjust the leadout time and frequency in RM, apparently. Why not learn the IR signal from the OEM remote, and then try to match that signal? Also see the executor John Fine wrote, in case you decide to cusotmize further..

I tried that executor...same deal.

I grabbed learns from the OARIO6G, the URC-7781, and the OEM DirecTV remote... The raw timings are very close...
Code:

OARGIO6G   
Once:   +5980 -1216; +1196 -1202; +598 -600; +598 -600; +1196 -1202; +598 -1198; +1196 -1202; +598 -1198; +598 -1198; +598 -30038;
Repeat: +2990 -1208; +1196 -1202; +598 -600; +598 -600; +1196 -1202; +598 -1198; +1196 -1202; +598 -1198; +598 -1198; +598 -30038;
URC-7781
Once:   +6038 -1224; +1210 -1212; +604 -608; +604 -608; +1210 -1212; +604 -1212; +1210 -1212; +604 -1212; +604 -1212; +604 -30258;
Repeat: +3032 -1204; +1210 -1212; +604 -608; +604 -608; +1210 -1212; +604 -1212; +1210 -1212; +604 -1212; +604 -1212; +604 -30258;
DirecTV
Once:   +5980 -1232; +1196 -1208; +598 -604; +598 -604; +1196 -1208; +598 -1202; +1196 -1208; +598 -1202; +598 -1202; +598 -30102;
Repeat: +2990 -1216; +1196 -1208; +598 -604; +598 -604; +1196 -1208; +598 -1202; +1196 -1208; +598 -1202; +598 -1202; +598 -30102;


So it seems there must be something with how the various remotes chain multiple presses or something. I'd love to capture 6 presses from each remote and look at the whole thing, but I don't have a widget. =(


Edit: For what it's worth, now that I'm more aware of it, it's actually noticeable in all buttons. I just grabbed the OEM remote and navigating menus or the guide are much faster with it when pressing the arrow keys multiple times. /shrug
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem you are experiencing would be consistant with the overall frame timing being off.

As you know, I'm not "mathy" so I like to see this in pictures. If you would post the IR or RMIR file with the learn, then I could drop them into IRScope to see what the pictures look like.

Also you might want to include a few more OEM keys to see if this has a lead-out time as total issue.

The replay executor is very complicated, but maybe something can be done to improve the responsiveness, by simply adjusting the timings slightly.

Upon looking at this a little closer, those timings look extremely close to the OEM. So its probably the way the repeating is being done. It could be that more repeats are being issued by the remote.

Is it just the keys that you want to do multiple presses on that are giving you issues?
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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Vyrolan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
Is it just the keys that you want to do multiple presses on that are giving you issues?

Yes. We get instant natural response just pressing a key, but working the DirecTV there's lots of time where you hit the same button over and over or a series of buttons quickly (like multi-skipping in this example, but also just hitting up/down 4+ times in a row while navigating menus or the guide). Only those repeated presses seem to have problems, so I agree it feels like it's extra repeats or something that only effects multiple presses.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vyrolan wrote:
vickyg2003 wrote:
Is it just the keys that you want to do multiple presses on that are giving you issues?

Yes. We get instant natural response just pressing a key, but working the DirecTV there's lots of time where you hit the same button over and over or a series of buttons quickly (like multi-skipping in this example, but also just hitting up/down 4+ times in a row while navigating menus or the guide). Only those repeated presses seem to have problems, so I agree it feels like it's extra repeats or something that only effects multiple presses.


Well we could create a tweaked protocol to totally remove the "test for repeat" option and only send signals once. That would screw up the keys that you do hold to get desireable repeating, (typically volume and arrows) but, it would probably fix the repeating issues.

I suspect the simple or the advanced might improve your chances. If you look at the protocol, it is extremely complicated.
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that you mention the repeats. I vaguely recall that there is a 9xx code that alters the repeats or something like that on the DirecTV remote? A lot of DirecTV subs do that to improve the response of their remote. Vyrolan, do you remember ever doing that to your OEM remote? If so, the signal may very well be different, but I don't know the details.
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Vyrolan



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Now that you mention the repeats. I vaguely recall that there is a 9xx code that alters the repeats or something like that on the DirecTV remote? A lot of DirecTV subs do that to improve the response of their remote. Vyrolan, do you remember ever doing that to your OEM remote? If so, the signal may very well be different, but I don't know the details.

I never did that on any of mine. We've accumulated quite a collection...the nearest 4 of them that I found all act the same.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Vyrolan, did you ever get around to trying creating upgrades with the other Replay protocols? Did they solve the slowness problem? If not did you want to try tweaking the protocol to stop all repeating?
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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