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Extended URC-9910 Macro Problem
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jledwell



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Extended URC-9910 Macro Problem Reply with quote

I am trying to setup a simple power on and power off macro, for all my equipment. I am having problems getting it to work reliably. I've read many treads and have tried adding pauses, both before and after a command. I've tried sending a command multiple times. I have had mixed results, sometimes multiple sends help, sometimes pauses help, but I can never get it to work reliably. I have been messing with this for hours. Crying or Very sad I feel it's a duration problem. I never have a reliability problem when the commands are sent manually.

If anyone can review the attached file and provide suggestions, it will be greatly appreciated.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=10224
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jledwell



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Could I get some help please? Reply with quote

Could I get some help please?

Thanks
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Could I get some help please? Reply with quote

jledwell wrote:
Could I get some help please?
Thanks

I have yet to get started in setting up a macro for my JP1 remotes. So, I am unable to give you specific advice on your issue. However, I do know a thing or two about writing scripts to control devices asynchronously and have a little knowledge of human tenancies which may offer some help.

The first thing to address is our instinctive nature when we control our devices remotely with independent commands. First of all, we tend to point the remote at the separate devices instead of a fixed location. The reason for that is that there is the subtle positive reinforcement because the device is often more responsive to our commands with direction. Unless of course, there's a television involved then that's always the target. Subconsciously, that gives us the a greater visual feedback, so we tend to direct our attention to it. That's just how we're raised to interact with things. Another thing we tend to do, is either hold down the button or press it in multiple successions until we get a response.

While creating your macro, you should recall these slight details which we might take for granted. Remember the IR remote has no way of receiving feedback. It sends the command arbitrarily of the response. The next time you control your device point it at a fixed target, as if you were using the macro. Make sure you make a note of whether or not you tap the button, hold it down for a couple seconds, press it more than once, and time necessary between commands. Remember when programming your macro, you're trying to duplicate the exact sequences to automate this process.

There's another thing we tend to do. Not follow through. Just like hitting a baseball or tennis ball for the first time. We tend to swing at the ball instead of through the ball. Sometimes when we see the first response, we tend to think all the commands have been sent and the devices are just waiting to register. So, we tend to stop pointing the remote. Make sure you hold the remote pointing in the general area until the macro has run its course or all of your devices are in the expected state.

Anyways, sorry that I couldn't give you more specific assistance for your issue. But, at least you have some feedback instead of nothing. And hopefully, what I wrote might help you. Good luck! and Happy New Year!
_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I took a quick look and noticed a few things and have a few questions.

Those delays are huge, no wonder your macros aren't reliable. There's no way I could hold my remote still for several minutes either.

In each macro you need to be using DEV_ to select each device, not the device itself, i.e., use DEV_SAT instead of SAT. Otherwise you're running the SAT macro which has a lot of other steps you don't need.

Remove all pauses from your master off macro. I can't think of any reason to have pauses in the off macro.

Remove as many pauses as possible from your master on macro, or at least shorten them where possible.

You may want to rethink the whole idea of a master on macro. Most people use an activity based model, where you only turn on the few devices you need for each activity. It looks like you were trying to do that with your ToadTogs. For example you may want to put a Watch TV macro on the TV button, Watch DVD on the DVD button, etc. Then Watch TV would only turn on the TV, amp and cable box and set the proper inputs. You probably only need power up delays for the TV, so turn on the tv first, then your other components, finish the required delay for the tv, then send your input commands. I wouldn't use the power button itself or shift-power for any of that because you don't want to lose the ability to turn one device at a time on or off or lose shift cloaking ability.

Speaking of ToadTogs, I only use those to simulate discrete on and off. I see what you're trying to do, but it seems needlessly complex to me.

A 16 second delay is a pretty long time, probably too long. What model TV do you have?

I've found what works for me and is intuitive for visitors is to put my activities on long presses of the device keys and my master off on a long press of the power button. That way short presses of the device keys simple select device modes like they would on a normal remote, and short press of power acts normally for each device. Some prefer to put the activities on short presses of the device keys and use long presses to switch device modes. The choice is yours.
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
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Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
A 16 second delay is a pretty long time, probably too long. What model TV do you have?

Not sure if anything has changed in two years but he last listed

jledwell wrote:
Thanks for the response. My remote is a JP1 (URC-9910) and I do have a cable.

The devices I have are:
Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 projector
Samsung BD-P1500 blu-ray player
Pioneer VSX-D901S Receiver

I found a match on the Logitech Harmony Database for the projector. So, I Recorded the IR signals with the JP1 tools to create the respective files. It has a few more commands than the one from 2009.

_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
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Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jledwell wrote:
Thanks for the response. My remote is a JP1 (URC-9910) and I do have a cable.

The devices I have are:
Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 projector
Samsung BD-P1500 blu-ray player
Pioneer VSX-D901S Receiver

I noticed in other threads, you were looking for discrete codes for Power On/Off for the Pioneer Receiver. So, I found a match on the Logitech Harmony Database for that as well. I Recorded the IR signals with the JP1 tools to create the respective files.

_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to mdavej and eferz. You guys are really great!
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jledwell



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for your help. I am not where I can try your suggestions, now. But I will try them and let you know.

I initially tried it without any pauses. I only added the pauses trying to get it to work reliably. I don't think I realized I had a delay that long, I was desperately trying anything and everything.

My current devices are:
Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 projector
Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver
Samsung BD-C5500 blu-ray player
Lutron Spacer Light controller

BTW, I really liked the suggestion:
Quote:
I've found what works for me and is intuitive for visitors is to put my activities on long presses of the device keys and my master off on a long press of the power button. That way short presses of the device keys simple select device modes like they would on a normal remote, and short press of power acts normally for each device.


Thanks again.
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along the lines of design philosophy, I use the green and the red as master on and off, respectively, on the Atlas remotes. I also use the short device key press for device selection and long key press on a device key for "activity" selection around that device. It's very intuitive indeed.
Best,
jeff
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenough1 wrote:
Thanks to mdavej and eferz. You guys are really great!
jledwell wrote:
Thank you both for your help.

You're both welcome. Always glad to help.
_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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jledwell



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
OK, I took a quick look and noticed a few things and have a few questions.

Those delays are huge, no wonder your macros aren't reliable. There's no way I could hold my remote still for several minutes either.

In each macro you need to be using DEV_ to select each device, not the device itself, i.e., use DEV_SAT instead of SAT. Otherwise you're running the SAT macro which has a lot of other steps you don't need.

Remove all pauses from your master off macro. I can't think of any reason to have pauses in the off macro.

Remove as many pauses as possible from your master on macro, or at least shorten them where possible.

You may want to rethink the whole idea of a master on macro. Most people use an activity based model, where you only turn on the few devices you need for each activity. It looks like you were trying to do that with your ToadTogs. For example you may want to put a Watch TV macro on the TV button, Watch DVD on the DVD button, etc. Then Watch TV would only turn on the TV, amp and cable box and set the proper inputs. You probably only need power up delays for the TV, so turn on the tv first, then your other components, finish the required delay for the tv, then send your input commands. I wouldn't use the power button itself or shift-power for any of that because you don't want to lose the ability to turn one device at a time on or off or lose shift cloaking ability.

Speaking of ToadTogs, I only use those to simulate discrete on and off. I see what you're trying to do, but it seems needlessly complex to me.

A 16 second delay is a pretty long time, probably too long. What model TV do you have?

I've found what works for me and is intuitive for visitors is to put my activities on long presses of the device keys and my master off on a long press of the power button. That way short presses of the device keys simple select device modes like they would on a normal remote, and short press of power acts normally for each device. Some prefer to put the activities on short presses of the device keys and use long presses to switch device modes. The choice is yours.


OK after a lot of experimenting, I discovered the Macros are not working reliably with my 'RF Extender on the 9910', if I turn it off and point my remote at the equipment it works well. I have my equipment in a closet, so I need the 'RF Extender' to work. The RF Extender works well, without macros, I don't know why it doesn't with them. Do you have any suggestions to make it work reliably with it?

Thanks for all your help.
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jledwell wrote:
OK after a lot of experimenting, I discovered the Macros are not working reliably with my 'RF Extender on the 9910', if I turn it off and point my remote at the equipment it works well. I have my equipment in a closet, so I need the 'RF Extender' to work. The RF Extender works well, without macros, I don't know why it doesn't with them. Do you have any suggestions to make it work reliably with it?

Very interesting. Take a look at this thread (http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5002).
_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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jledwell



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eferz wrote:
jledwell wrote:
OK after a lot of experimenting, I discovered the Macros are not working reliably with my 'RF Extender on the 9910', if I turn it off and point my remote at the equipment it works well. I have my equipment in a closet, so I need the 'RF Extender' to work. The RF Extender works well, without macros, I don't know why it doesn't with them. Do you have any suggestions to make it work reliably with it?

Very interesting. Take a look at this thread (http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5002).


Thanks. I only seem to have trouble with the macros, not anything else. As far as both ir signals interfering, this is not the case because my equipment is in the closet. Since, my only problem is with macros, I wonder if the 'RF Extender' needs the signals for a longer duration?
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eferz
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Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 1078
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jledwell wrote:
Thanks. I only seem to have trouble with the macros, not anything else. As far as both ir signals interfering, this is not the case because my equipment is in the closet. Since, my only problem is with macros, I wonder if the 'RF Extender' needs the signals for a longer duration?

Something I always ask everyone else with remote problems but seem to have skipped you is, "Do you try it with fresh batteries?"

Also, do you by chance have an IR widget? I'd be curious to find out if your macro is sending the correct signals at all through the extender. You could always setup IR scope to capture 15 seconds (15000mS) of data. This can help you determine what the heck is coming out of your extender. Also, in your extensive troubleshooting did you notice if distance from the extender made any difference in macro execution?
_________________
Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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jledwell



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Something I always ask everyone else with remote problems but seem to have skipped you is, "Do you try it with fresh batteries?"
Yes. I put in new ones.

Quote:
Also, do you by chance have an IR widget?
No.

Quote:
Also, in your extensive troubleshooting did you notice if distance from the extender made any difference in macro execution?
No. It isn't a distance issue. I am right outside the closet where my equipment is.

The 'RF Extender' works well, without macros. Macros work well without the 'RF Extender'. They just don't work well with each other.

Thanks
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