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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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 Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I've tried to learn remote commands from my pioneer tv remote and discovered the same problem when trying to download from remote as with Onkyo receiver commands. I never had any issues with my 8910. Good thing I still have it around... |
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cauer29
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| tpaxadpom wrote: | | I've tried to learn remote commands from my pioneer tv remote and discovered the same problem when trying to download from remote as with Onkyo receiver commands. I never had any issues with my 8910. Good thing I still have it around... |
I did not have any problem downloading cmds learned from the Samsung remote using my 15-100. The only issue I had with IR 8.03 after downloading was when I clicked on the "code summary". Then I get an "access violation at address 0040181D in module 'ir.exe'. Read of address 00000F0C." I'm pretty sure that it always does that, not just after downloading the Samsung learns from the 15-100.
I also compared the output of the 15-100 when using the 1B5 protocol against the original remote on the scope and they were precisely identical. So, I can't explain why the 1B5 protocol should behave any different than the original remote. I'll have to do some direct side by side tests with the STB.
A.A. |
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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Just so we're clear here, when IR.exe instructs to clear upper memory, you need to do Adavnced/CleanUpperMemory, and then upload back into the remote. If you skip that upload step (as I did today  ) then the next download still won't work..... |
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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cauer29 wrote: | | tpaxadpom wrote: | | I've tried to learn remote commands from my pioneer tv remote and discovered the same problem when trying to download from remote as with Onkyo receiver commands. I never had any issues with my 8910. Good thing I still have it around... |
I did not have any problem downloading cmds learned from the Samsung remote using my 15-100. The only issue I had with IR 8.03 after downloading was when I clicked on the "code summary". Then I get an "access violation at address 0040181D in module 'ir.exe'. Read of address 00000F0C." I'm pretty sure that it always does that, not just after downloading the Samsung learns from the 15-100.
I also compared the output of the 15-100 when using the 1B5 protocol against the original remote on the scope and they were precisely identical. So, I can't explain why the 1B5 protocol should behave any different than the original remote. I'll have to do some direct side by side tests with the STB.
A.A. |
How did you do that. Connected probe to LED? The problem is not what it is sending as we know it works but rather with this protocol where long keypress repeasts the same command over and over (imho). |
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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 3FG wrote: | | Just so we're clear here, when IR.exe instructs to clear upper memory, you need to do Adavnced/CleanUpperMemory, and then upload back into the remote. If you skip that upload step (as I did today ) then the next download still won't work..... |
So you are saying that when IR generate Advanced/CleanUppderMemory error it did complete the download from the remote control? I thought it simply fails and I uploaded the old upgrade to remote, that worked before, then I was able to download again from the remote. So far I have problems with some keys on my Onkyo receiver and Pioneer tv. |
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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3367
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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No, what I was trying to say is that once the error has occurred, one way to repair it is to go to the menu, Click on Advanced, and Select Clean Upper memory. Then upload to the remote, and you should be able to try learning and downloading again. I suppose that loading an previous good image will also work.
Why are you trying learn the Pioneer TV codes? Why not post the model number and the missing functions? We may be able to suggest the correct OBCs. |
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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:09 am Post subject: |
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So you are saying it is possible to get this error when doing something else other then downloading from remote? And that is why it says to Clean Upper memory.
I have Pioneer PRO-730HDi tv set. On URC8910 I use 0166 code plus some learned functions. If I try to learn buttons IR.exe is having problems interpretting them. I get Gap... or bunch of numbers. So for now I decided to leave it alone. |
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cauer29
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| tpaxadpom wrote: | | cauer29 wrote: | I also compared the output of the 15-100 when using the 1B5 protocol against the original remote on the scope and they were precisely identical. So, I can't explain why the 1B5 protocol should behave any different than the original remote. I'll have to do some direct side by side tests with the STB.
A.A. |
How did you do that. Connected probe to LED? The problem is not what it is sending as we know it works but rather with this protocol where long keypress repeasts the same command over and over (imho). |
Though most folks here tend to use the official "widget" and its accompanying software, I use a small circuit very similar to the learning circuit inside the remote, connected to a 'scope. I verified that the frequency of the pulses was near perfect and the on/off times for the pulse groups was also near perfect, as was the repeat timing.
I have since convinced myself in side by side testing of the original remote and the 15-100 using the 1B5 protocol, that there doesn't seem to be any difference in behavior. If the button press durations are identical, the STB responds identically. That said, I'm beginning to think that the subjective idea that it behaves differently, is due to different feel of the button as it's pressed. Somehow the 15-100 has a sort of snap over center feel that promotes holding it longer than the Samsung remote that seems to release faster as you reduce pressure on the key. So, I think it's just a difference in the button feel itself that promotes longer key presses on the 15-100.
A.A. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| tpaxadpom wrote: | So you are saying it is possible to get this error when doing something else other then downloading from remote? And that is why it says to Clean Upper memory.
I have Pioneer PRO-730HDi tv set. On URC8910 I use 0166 code plus some learned functions. If I try to learn buttons IR.exe is having problems interpretting them. I get Gap... or bunch of numbers. So for now I decided to leave it alone. |
As an extender user, I am very leary of ever doing a clean upper memory,as this can be detrimental to an extender. Clear upper memory is usually used in RDF development. I prefer your method of loading a good image, or starting with a 981 reset.
A GAP can indicate an unknown protocol or it can indicate a bad learning technique. I had a lot of trouble doing head-to-head learns. When I learned how to read raw data signals, I found that half the reason I was having learning problems, was that I was too quick to press my oem buttons. Other times I was jerking the remote. Now I use a Widget to do 99% of my captures, but occassionally I still need to capture using a learning remote, and I find that now that I've improved my technique I'm much less likely to have trouble with my learns.
To get your best learning results, learn in a low light environement. Sunlight or flourescent light can interfere with the learning process.
Make sure both the remotes have good batteries.
Wait until the UEI remote is flashing before you press the OEM button. For "normal" signals you want to hold the OEM button down until the UEI remote indicates that learning is complete. Then you can press another button to begin your next capture. (I was doing a 975 for each learn, I didn't realize it would keep going in a batch)
If you post your ir file in the diagnosis area and post a link in your thread, we can look at the learns that are coming in as a GAP and tell if its a new protocol or a learning error.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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3FG
Expert
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3367
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:02 am Post subject: |
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If learning is not working well, why not try a different approach?
This upgrade is for Pioneer RPTVs , and is probably a very good start for your TV. It uses the PioneerDVD executor, and is capable of sending the two command signals that Pioneer uses for some functions, and which may be difficult for your remote to learn. Actually TV 0679 has many of the needed functions.
Pioneer publishes IR codes for some TVs, and these can be a good source of device numbers and OBC for upgrades.
And, there are a number of upgrades here that may provide any missing functions. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:55 am Post subject: |
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3FG has a good point, there are many sources for Pioneer equipment. You may not "need" to learn.
There are some times when learning isn't possible, but its also nice to polish your learning technique, because most manufacturer's are not enlightened enough to publish their ir information. Prior to improving my learning techniques about 50% of my 'easy to learn' signals were not decoding. When I figured out how to do it correctly I'm getting much better results. I still forget what I put where, which is very annoying, but at least decodeIR can interpret them.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: | | tpaxadpom wrote: | So you are saying it is possible to get this error when doing something else other then downloading from remote? And that is why it says to Clean Upper memory.
I have Pioneer PRO-730HDi tv set. On URC8910 I use 0166 code plus some learned functions. If I try to learn buttons IR.exe is having problems interpretting them. I get Gap... or bunch of numbers. So for now I decided to leave it alone. |
As an extender user, I am very leary of ever doing a clean upper memory,as this can be detrimental to an extender. Clear upper memory is usually used in RDF development. I prefer your method of loading a good image, or starting with a 981 reset.
A GAP can indicate an unknown protocol or it can indicate a bad learning technique. I had a lot of trouble doing head-to-head learns. When I learned how to read raw data signals, I found that half the reason I was having learning problems, was that I was too quick to press my oem buttons. Other times I was jerking the remote. Now I use a Widget to do 99% of my captures, but occassionally I still need to capture using a learning remote, and I find that now that I've improved my technique I'm much less likely to have trouble with my learns.
To get your best learning results, learn in a low light environement. Sunlight or flourescent light can interfere with the learning process.
Make sure both the remotes have good batteries.
Wait until the UEI remote is flashing before you press the OEM button. For "normal" signals you want to hold the OEM button down until the UEI remote indicates that learning is complete. Then you can press another button to begin your next capture. (I was doing a 975 for each learn, I didn't realize it would keep going in a batch)
If you post your ir file in the diagnosis area and post a link in your thread, we can look at the learns that are coming in as a GAP and tell if its a new protocol or a learning error. |
I did try to re-learn the keys but I ended up with other problems. So I decided to try another day. I never did the reset after I loaded a good image though. I should try that next time. |
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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| 3FG wrote: | If learning is not working well, why not try a different approach?
This upgrade is for Pioneer RPTVs , and is probably a very good start for your TV. It uses the PioneerDVD executor, and is capable of sending the two command signals that Pioneer uses for some functions, and which may be difficult for your remote to learn. Actually TV 0679 has many of the needed functions.
Pioneer publishes IR codes for some TVs, and these can be a good source of device numbers and OBC for upgrades.
And, there are a number of upgrades here that may provide any missing functions. |
Thanks for the links. I did find the Pioneer database link in another thread before I wrote about this problem. Unfortunately Pioneer doesn't have my TV in their database. I did see Pioneer RPTV upgrade (it's also in yahoo group database) and it doesn't have all the buttons I needed. I don't recal if I tried it or not as built-in library has most functions available for my TV. Since I created a bunch of upgrades in the past I decided to start from scratch and create my own upgrade. It would've been nice if I was able to pull built-in code out and extract it to create my own upgrade but I don't think there is a way to that. |
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3FG
Expert
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3367
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, it isn't possible to extract the contents of a setup code directly from your remote, but in this case the Lookup Tool (link at the top of this page) wil do a pretty good job. There's a few duplicate entries, but you can look up setup code TV 0679, click on EFCs and enter the EFCs into RM. A few minutes will do the job. |
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tpaxadpom
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| cauer29 wrote: | | tpaxadpom wrote: | | cauer29 wrote: | I also compared the output of the 15-100 when using the 1B5 protocol against the original remote on the scope and they were precisely identical. So, I can't explain why the 1B5 protocol should behave any different than the original remote. I'll have to do some direct side by side tests with the STB.
A.A. |
How did you do that. Connected probe to LED? The problem is not what it is sending as we know it works but rather with this protocol where long keypress repeasts the same command over and over (imho). |
Though most folks here tend to use the official "widget" and its accompanying software, I use a small circuit very similar to the learning circuit inside the remote, connected to a 'scope. I verified that the frequency of the pulses was near perfect and the on/off times for the pulse groups was also near perfect, as was the repeat timing.
I have since convinced myself in side by side testing of the original remote and the 15-100 using the 1B5 protocol, that there doesn't seem to be any difference in behavior. If the button press durations are identical, the STB responds identically. That said, I'm beginning to think that the subjective idea that it behaves differently, is due to different feel of the button as it's pressed. Somehow the 15-100 has a sort of snap over center feel that promotes holding it longer than the Samsung remote that seems to release faster as you reduce pressure on the key. So, I think it's just a difference in the button feel itself that promotes longer key presses on the 15-100.
A.A. |
A.A. I just found the original remote for Samsung OTA tuner, installed batteries and tested. Long keypress doesn't send multiple commands in sequence(no duplicates). I'm pretty positive that is 1B5 protocol that duplicates those commands. |
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