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8820N Extender Macros Slow

http://hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12749

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8820N Extender Macros Slow

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:06 pm
by cbutkus
I'm using the beta extender for the 8820N and I seem to have everything working fine except that the macros don't seem to run as fast as my previous remote (RCU810).

Am I doing something wrong or is this a limitation of the remote and/or the extender?

Thanks in advance!

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:21 pm
by vickyg2003
Yes that was a limitation of the remote. These are a lot faster than on the original remote. However when I made the macros any faster, the remote was not always doing everything we asked it to do....

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:22 pm
by cbutkus
Thanks for the fast reply! It was only an issue with the LKP stuff as the regular button press became way too slow. Otherwise the macros are fine. It's a great remote and a great extender :)

Thanks again!

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:01 am
by vickyg2003
cbutkus wrote:Thanks for the fast reply! It was only an issue with the LKP stuff as the regular button press became way too slow. Otherwise the macros are fine. It's a great remote and a great extender :)

Thanks again!
When you say the regular buton press became way too slow, does that mean slow to start. Do you have the LKP on the shortest possible duration?

I'm just taking this to mean that the macros run slower than the RCU810 extender speedy macros, but if when you say "way too slow" that there is something abnormal going on, let us have a look.

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:09 am
by cbutkus
vickyg2003 wrote:
cbutkus wrote:Thanks for the fast reply! It was only an issue with the LKP stuff as the regular button press became way too slow. Otherwise the macros are fine. It's a great remote and a great extender :)

Thanks again!
When you say the regular buton press became way too slow, does that mean slow to start. Do you have the LKP on the shortest possible duration?

I'm just taking this to mean that the macros run slower than the RCU810 extender speedy macros, but if when you say "way too slow" that there is something abnormal going on, let us have a look.
When I tried to use LKP, the command I put on the "short" button press was taking much longer than usual. I was attempting to use LKP for my up/down buttons. The short key press would still be the normal up/down functions, the long key press would be page up/page down.

I set it up and it worked correctly. It was just that pressing up/down the way I normally do would result in it moving up/down only once for every 2/3 times I pressed it.

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:32 pm
by vickyg2003
This sounds more like a "duration problem" or a "toggle problem" than a "slow macro" problem.

Because this is on the short side of a lkp, its getting the minimum number of repeats.

If the setup is using a toggling protocol like RC5, then the toggle might be getting out of whack.

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:23 pm
by ElizabethD
cbutkus, Begins to sound to me like something unrelated to that extender.
When you say Page up/down are slower than by the RCU810 remote, does it mean the RCU remote worked the same gear faster? Are you refering to the same set top box and identical (more or less) LKPs?
Perhaps the box need rebooting. I find some Comcast boxes need a reboot, then they work a tad faster.

And to answer to Vicky, please do tell what gear with those Page up/down commands are we talking about. Also I'm confused about you saying the short key press is slow.

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:27 pm
by cbutkus
vickyg2003 wrote:This sounds more like a "duration problem" or a "toggle problem" than a "slow macro" problem.

Because this is on the short side of a lkp, its getting the minimum number of repeats.

If the setup is using a toggling protocol like RC5, then the toggle might be getting out of whack.
What do you mean by RC5? How do I know if that is what I am using?

Thanks!

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:20 pm
by ElizabethD
It is a protocol of the structure of the infrared signal addressing the gear you're struggling with but won't tell what it is.
If you are using an upgrade file from the file section, then KM or RM you used identifies the protocol on the Setup sheet.
If you're using learned signals in IR, then IR identifies the protocols on the Learning tab.
If you're using a built in upgrade, then the device and setup code tell a lot - you can crossreference them using the Lookup Tool link on top of this page.

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:23 pm
by vickyg2003
cbutkus wrote:
vickyg2003 wrote:This sounds more like a "duration problem" or a "toggle problem" than a "slow macro" problem.

Because this is on the short side of a lkp, its getting the minimum number of repeats.

If the setup is using a toggling protocol like RC5, then the toggle might be getting out of whack.
What do you mean by RC5? How do I know if that is what I am using?
RC5 is the name of one of the known protocols. Its a very common protocol. If you are using an upgrade, then you'd look at your KM or RM file to find out what protocol it uses. If it is a built in setup code, look it up in the lookup tool to see what protocol it is shooting.

Toggling comes in two different flavors. Toggles either change every frame like the Panasonic or every time the key is pushed like the RC5.

On a universal remote the toggling bits of the RC5 type toggling protocols often get out of synch, requiring an extra push every now and then. Its not a big deal until you get to automating tasks with macros. Then it becomes a problem because the key presses get ignored when the toggle bit is not in the correct state.

Working with RC5 type signals in macros was so frustrating that I gave away most of my equipment that used RC5 type signals and won't buy any more equipment without finding out what kind of protocol the equipment uses first.

Your problem is just as likely to be a duration problem as a toggling problem.

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:21 pm
by cbutkus
vickyg2003 wrote: RC5 is the name of one of the known protocols. Its a very common protocol. If you are using an upgrade, then you'd look at your KM or RM file to find out what protocol it uses. If it is a built in setup code, look it up in the lookup tool to see what protocol it is shooting.

Toggling comes in two different flavors. Toggles either change every frame like the Panasonic or every time the key is pushed like the RC5.

On a universal remote the toggling bits of the RC5 type toggling protocols often get out of synch, requiring an extra push every now and then. Its not a big deal until you get to automating tasks with macros. Then it becomes a problem because the key presses get ignored when the toggle bit is not in the correct state.

Working with RC5 type signals in macros was so frustrating that I gave away most of my equipment that used RC5 type signals and won't buy any more equipment without finding out what kind of protocol the equipment uses first.

Your problem is just as likely to be a duration problem as a toggling problem.
So I looked at the protocol and it is not RC5. What I did notice is that when there is no LKP on the buttons, pressing them only causes the power button to flash once. With LKP on the buttons, a "short" press causes the power button to flash twice (I'm assuming this is normal? For the protocol and the command?). This is obviously slower than having the button flash once. So it looks like this is the reason for the what I was calling "slowness". I believe with LKP on a button, if I press it before the second "flash", the remote doesn't register the second button press.

So is this just the way it is, or is there someway to get around this and still use LKP?

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:11 pm
by vickyg2003
I'd like to take a look at this myself, but even if you posted your IR file, all I could do is look. Normally I'd load this into my 8820N to see what is happening but I broke another jp1.2/3 cable. I can't even order one because my mail is being forwarded, and seems to be lost. Many people said my mail is being returned as undeliverable.

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:31 pm
by cbutkus
Well, here it is. Let me know if anything is obviously wrong. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to wait until you get your new jp1.2/1.3 cable :(

Good luck in getting your email straightened out.

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F4F0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F510:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F520:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F530:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F5F0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F600:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F610:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F630:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F650:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F660:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F670:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F680:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F690:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F6A0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F6B0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F6C0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F6D0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F6E0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F6F0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F700:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F710:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F720:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F730:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F740:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F750:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F760:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F770:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F780:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F790:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F7A0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F7B0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F7C0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F7D0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F7E0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F800:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F840:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
F850:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F880:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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F8B0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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FAC0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
FAD0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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FAF0:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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FB70:  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF  FF
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FBC0:  8C  BE  4A  D6  01  2F  B7  73  81  B6  E5  A1  6F  25  06  A1
FBD0:  7F  22  02  99  81  98  81  B6  DE  AE  05  42  B1  70  91  04
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[Notes]
$100A=Fav
$100B=Page Down
$100C=Day-
$100D=TV Tuner discrete
$100E=Video #1 (VCR) discrete
$100F=Video #2 (Game) discrete
$1010=Video #3 (Std Cable) discrete
$1011=Video #4 (DVD) discrete
$1012=Video #5 discrete
$1013=Video #6 (HD Cable) discrete
$1014=Video #7 discrete
$1015=Discrete ON
$1016=Discrete OFF
$1017=[FAVORITES]
$1018=[ANT] input select
$1019=Discrete On
$101A=Discrete Off
$101B=Test Tone
$101C=discrete on
$101D=discrete off
$1022=Up
$1023=Down
$1024=Left
$1025=Right
$1026=OK/Select
$1027=Up
$1028=Down
$1029=Left
$102A=Right
$102B=OK/Select
$102C=discrete on
$102D=discrete off
$102E=Discrete On
$102F=Discrete Off
$1030=power
$1032=power toggle
$1033=power
$1034=Discrete ON
$1035=Discrete OFF
$1043=Up
$1044=Down
$1045=Left
$1046=Right
$1047=R 1
$1048=L 1
$3000=10820N Extender Beta 00 DO NOT REMOVE
$3001=Toad Tog Device 10820N Extender
$3003=Device Specific Macro 10820N Extender
$3004=Pause 10820N Extender
$3005=LKP/DKP Extender 10820N Beta
$3006=Motorola DCT6412 Set Top Box (RM v1.99b)
$3007=Sony KDS-60 (RM v1.99b)
$3008=SONY STRDE-895 (RM v1.99b)
$3009=Nyko Ps3 BlueWave Remote (RM v1.99b)
$300A=Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD (RM v1.99b)
$300B=GE VCR KM Look at Papers (RM v1.99b)
$4000=10820N Extender DO NOT REMOVE
$4001=TOAD/TOG Protocol for the 10820N
$4002=Multiplex 10820N - Advanced version
$4003=Multiplex 10820N - standard version
$4004=Device Specific Macros (DSM) 10820N
$4005=Pause Protocol
$4006=LKP/DKP 10820N
:( :(

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:17 pm
by vickyg2003
I'd really prefer to download a file from a link, but I did download this and take a look.

I take it that the keys giving you trouble are the Cbl/0476 codes that shoot the GICable signals.
I set it up and it worked correctly. It was just that pressing up/down the way I normally do would result in it moving up/down only once for every 2/3 times I pressed it.
As I said this sounds like either a duration problem or a toggle problem. Many protocols send a minimum number of frames. If you tap the up arrow you only get one frame, no dittos. Read about G.I.Cable{1}. I think if we tweaked the protocol to put out at least one ditto, the signal would behave better when played in a macro, (or in this case the lkp). Normally I'd tweak the protocol and test it, but again I've got no cable and won't have for a couple of weeks. I'm not ordering anything by mail until I get this mail forwarding mess cleared up.

This won't shorten the time that it takes to play the macro, but it should improve the reliability.

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:24 pm
by cbutkus
vickyg2003 wrote: As I said this sounds like either a duration problem or a toggle problem. Many protocols send a minimum number of frames. If you tap the up arrow you only get one frame, no dittos. Read about G.I.Cable{1}. I think if we tweaked the protocol to put out at least one ditto, the signal would behave better when played in a macro, (or in this case the lkp). Normally I'd tweak the protocol and test it, but again I've got no cable and won't have for a couple of weeks. I'm not ordering anything by mail until I get this mail forwarding mess cleared up.

This won't shorten the time that it takes to play the macro, but it should improve the reliability.
Thanks. So what software would I need to actually develop one of these extenders? Is there a how-to somewhere? I'm a long time programmer, so I'd be interested in what's involved.
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