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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can straightforwardly drill the PCB, centering each hole on the 6 solder pads, then use 5 minute epoxy to fasten the header to the unplated side of the board, and finally solder the each of the 6 pins of the header to the corresponding solder blobs.

Actually, if you can solder the header in so that it is completely flush to the PCB surface, the glue isn't necessary. That's because the PCB traces won't see a force that can lift them away from the board surface. But that is hard to do without a special holder, since the pins are too hot to touch during soldering, and it is imperative that the header be held firmly against the PCB during soldering. So it is safer to use glue to provide mechanical strength.

The drilling will take some care to get the spacing and location correct. Unless you have some kind of counter surface to place under the PCB during drilling, be sure to use very little downward force. The PCB shouldn't be significantly bent, else some of the surface mounted components may end up with poor connections to the board.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be a good idea to use a piece of perf board that has the right spacing as a guide for the drilling?
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guys in our electronics shop sometimes use a female ribbon cable connector as a guide. But clamping the guide so that it doesn't move with respect to the PCB is difficult, so usually they just drill very carefully.

If I were doing this, I would probably have the PCB still in the bottom of the remote casing, and use a drill press. If no drill press was available, I'd want a second person to hold the remote casing firmly, resting it on a table, while the other person runs the hand drill.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,

Before i spend more time/money over that specific brand/model lets try to verify if this one actually conforms to the JP1.3 interface, then i'll consider buying drill bits and some other hardware (like the JP1.3 electronics, etc)...

The lack of graphic details combined to the fact that this circuit board has two overlapping conductive layers on the very same side means that my interpretative work of what i think i see may happen to be inaccurate. I can't guarantee that this really applies to the actual layout, it's possible I've got one or more track(s) figured all wrong but it's my best shot at estimating the signal routing:



There's a 1 K Ohms pull-down resistor tied to pin #5 so my guess is that's an input; pin #2 seems to drive a 10 K Ohms pull-up resistor, this one must be an output. Pins #4 and #6 connect to the micro-controller directly, these could be "I/O" lines. As for pins #1 and #3, i think these are power-related (e.g. #1 might be a controlled Vcc+ supply and #3 is Gnd).

If these assumptions are consistent with the JP1 standard then i'll most probably be having some creative fun this fall!

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3FG
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's schematics for simple (non-USB) interfaces to JP1.2/1.3 remotes, which show:

1 +V
2 /Reset
3 Ground
4 /Rx
5 Not connected but apparently for manufacturing test mode
6 /Tx

These assignments match very well with what you have found. No question in my mind that it is a JP1.3 (S3F8 micro rather than HCS08) remote.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, after some reading i'd say it fits in quite nicely all right!

So it would seem i'm almost ready to read this fine thread now:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9405



But an adapter would be useless without a connector, maybe one with its pins milled in this fashion:



...only, i need them to be aligned neatly in a reliable 3 x 2 bloc...

In this manner the pins can't slip and push on the copper traces on the other side, risking to lift them. Slight radiant bending of the pins done on the copper track side would help to solidify the solder joints (otherwise pulling the plug might sollicitate those).

Such tricks can ensure that mechanical stress is transfered to the circuit board instead of the copper tracks/solder joints, i believe.



As for the holes, i'm seeing a clock smith this afternoon in hope i can get drill bits from him, i suppose he might also offer to do the drilling work, actually...

Hummm... The problem is that doesn't make sense since i have no idea what size the header pins will be to begin with! It seems i'll have to cancel that appointment, after all!

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3FG
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the header block that you need. Or you can buy one with more pins, and breakoff 6 pin sections. As I posted earlier, I recommend that the 6 pin header should be glued into place.

Jameco Electronics 6 pin Header

Jameco also sells drill bits for PCBs.

You may be able to pick the headers and drills up at a local electronics hobbyist store.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I think this is an equivalent product, the pins are made a bit larger where they meet the body of their supporting bloc:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=A26568-ND

This feature alone can prevent pushing on the copper tracks and spreading the legs slightly on the solder side would lock the connector in place while the glue settles...

The problem with it is the required hole size of 0.9 to 1 mm for a square post measuring 0.64 mm in diameter, which is not leaving much copper to solder anything on, as if it weren't bad enough that this no ideal shape...

Thank you anyway for pointing me at Jameco where i can get 0.021" drill bits (0.64 mm = 0.025"). The round shape of a 0.020" lead would provide maximum contact compared to square ones so i'm now looking for 3 x 2 blocs featuring such thinner pins.

Hummm... That Jameco drill bit sure is small, 0.021" that's barely larger than AWG #26 (0.0188")!... Perhaps the pin i shown previously happens to be my only option. Length=0.315", pin diameter=0.02", seating ring=0.045", mounting hole=0.024" (Ref.: Mill-Max 9081). I guess it would be tight.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I've always bought the headers in strips of 72 pins and then cut off 6-pin headers from them. The 72-pin strip is just 89 cents.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_68574_-1?CID=PDF

Is this the drill bit that you're looking at:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_16619_-1
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...

I mean a 0.02" pin requiring a 0.024" mounting hole would fit tight in a hole made using a 0.021" drill bit but i fear the same pin would be somewhat loose in Tommy's JP1 adapter plug which is build for 0.025" square posts!...

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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't need one of Tommy's adapters, those are just for the older EEPROM style remotes. But if you're worried that the IDC connector that he uses won't fit your pins, you could look to see if you can source one that would fit better and then just replace the one that's on Tommy's cable.

ps. do you use an unusual browser or something? I have to edit all of your posts to make them display correctly because there are so many line breaks in them.
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Last edited by The Robman on Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to put a damper on anyone's JP1 hardware hacking enthusiasm, but I just learned the RCA RCRP05B is now down to $4 at walgreens and has JP1 pins already as well as more buttons than the OP's remote. Sure would save a lot of trouble.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm making some progress:

DigiKey SAM1113-03-ND aka Samtec TD-103-G-A

The solder pins are 0.018" dia. x 0.156" long
The connect posts are 0.025" dia. x 0.166" long

This is the Manufacturer's documentation:

http://www.samtec.com/documents/webfiles/pdf/TD.PDF

...and it looks approximately like this (except 2x3):



Sitting rings prevent its pins from pushing on the solder
pads thru the holes.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pichet,
mdavej's is quite correct that this project is going to take a lot of effort and cost, compared to just buying an already fully configured JP1.3 remote.

However, if you want to go ahead, may i gently suggest that you are going at this the wrong way? Both Rob and I have showed the correct header to use. These headers are standard parts and are intended to mate to the connectors that can be attached to ribbon cables. The pins are of the correct length and cross section for mating with ribbon cable connectors. And these headers are in use in millions of JP1 remotes.

The much more expensive connectors you've found are not intended mate that way, and in fact are intended to connect two PCBs together. If you install these in the remote, the quality of the connection to the ribbon cable will be poor.

Also, with the standard 6 pin header, there will be no problem with the pins pushing the copper traces off the PCB-- provided you glue the plastic part of the header to the PCB before soldering.

Nor is there any special need to make the drilled holes close in diameter to the pin cross section. Actually the diameter needs to be bigger to allow for inaccuracy in the drilled hole location. Solder will bridge the gap easily.
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Pichet



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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found no other JP1.3 compatible remote controls in local stores but i confess that travelling 450 miles to shop around wasn't considered to be an option at the time... The JP1 option would have been nice but i'm already able to control all of my appliances with that single brand/model. I don't regret buying three all at once under such circumstances and i certainly find no reason to return them to the store. The connector only needs to be suitable for Tommy's adaptor, it doesn't have to match a million other JP1 remote controls...

The product mentioned is for illustration purposes, so far... DigiKey suggests mating female plugs so if i'm going to modify Tommy's one (as was suggested) or build my own adapter then i get a perfect match.

Right now the question is:

What are the specifications for Tommy's connector???

Ah, and one more question perhaps... What should i use if i'm not supposed to need this to play with JP1 compatible software?:

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