RCA RT2390 receiver: Missing some OEM codes

[alex750]

Device: RCA RT2390
Type of device: Home theater receiver (5.1 ch) with included speakers
Year: Not known precisely, circa 2000 IIRC. Sold primarily in USA via Wal-Mart. Discontinued.
JP1/UEI remote model: URC-6800B00
JP1 Cable?: Yes
OEM remote?: No
Checked file section?: Yes, found several partial matches (e.g. "RCA Master List"); used to build custom code--see below
Checked Remote Central?: Yes, found only RT2500/RT5000; did not use since this was duplicate material
Partially working setup code?: Yes, AMP/1054 (file is here)
Learning remote?: N/A

My questions:
(1) Is there a way to enter 16-bit EFCs manually? The 8-bit ones don't seem to work with this protocol.
(2) Failing (1), is there anyone with this unit who can provide the following EFCs or OBCs:
TUNE UP
TUNE DOWN
EQ
NIGHT
SUBWOOFER
POWER (toggle--I have the discretes, but don't want to use ToadTog unless I have no choice)
I have left spaces open for these in the "Functions" section of the KM file.

[3FG]

According to this file posted by Rob,
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2778 tuner up is device 9 OBC 28, while tuner down is 9/29.

Now, about 16 bit and 8 bit EFCs, I know very little about this, but
1) I believe that better terminology is 5 digit and 3 digit. 16 bit implies that there are 65536 distinct EFCs, but I think that in some cases the 2 most significant decimal digits carry protocol and executor information, but have no function info. If so, there are fewer than 65536 combinations.
2) Again, I'm simply saying what I have inferred, but I think that to input 5 digit EFCs manually (by which I assume you mean using the remote keys, or alternatively, by directly entering them in to KM/RM), you have to have a newer remote which expects 5 digit EFCs. Using RM to look at your file, and then changing to a RS 15-135 remote, 5 digit EFCs are displayed, while for a 6800, only 3 digit EFCs are available. Note that the Hex bytes and fixed data are different for the two remotes, and that implies to me that the executors are different.

[vickyg2003]

(1) Is there a way to enter 16-bit EFCs manually? The 8-bit ones don't seem to work with this protocol.

This RCA device uses a combo code. You'll need to work with OBC/Device in this case. If you enter the OBC/Device in RM, the 5 digit EFC will be calculated for you.

Try these,

Code: Select all

Function              OBC       byte2/dev
TUNE UP              028       9
TUNE DOWN            029       9
POWER                059       12
EQ LEVEL             178       12
SUBWOOFER            181       12

I think OBC 176 12 might be related to one of your other missing functions too, its function was listed as AUDIO in one of the upgrades I looked at.

[alex750]

Now, about 16 bit and 8 bit EFCs, I know very little about this, but
1) I believe that better terminology is 5 digit and 3 digit. 16 bit implies that there are 65536 distinct EFCs, but I think that in some cases the 2 most significant decimal digits carry protocol and executor information, but have no function info. If so, there are fewer than 65536 combinations.

Ah, cultural differences!
I'll agree "5 digit" and "3 digit" are more commonly used here...but to me this implies 100,000 (or 1000) possible EFCs, not 64K (or some subset thereof) or 256 respectively. I'll use the common terms from now on.

As for using 5-digit EFCs manually, I meant on the remote itself (i.e., pressing Setup and entering a 5 digit EFC). But since neither of my remotes (the 6800 and a URC-8910) can use these, it's a moot point.

The following discretes did work:

Code: Select all

Function       OBC      Device
EQ LEVEL       178        12
SUBWOOFER      181        12

As for the others, no go. Just on a hunch, I also tried 028/12 and 029/12 for TUNE UP and TUNE DOWN. They didn't work either. 059/12 is already in use; it's POWER OFF.

However, I'm trying a different approach. My URC-6800 manual lists four different device codes for RCA receivers: AMP/0054, AMP/0360, AMP/0530 and AMP/0531. I've assigned each of these to a different device button, and for each one I'll go through all the possible (3 digit) EFCs. If I find one that works, I'll then grab my 8910 and learn it; once I'm done, I'll download the results back into IR where I should be able to obtain the OBC and device codes.

If that doesn't work, the 8910 has two more I can try: TUNER/1023 and TUNER/1254. In this case, I'd use the 6800 to learn any codes.

[vickyg2003]

My URC-6800 manual lists four different device codes for RCA receivers: AMP/0054, AMP/0360, AMP/0530 and AMP/0531. I've assigned each of these to a different device button, and for each one I'll go through all the possible (3 digit) EFCs. If I find one that works, I'll then grab my 8910 and learn it; once I'm done, I'll download the results back into IR where I should be able to obtain the OBC and device codes.

If that doesn't work, the 8910 has two more I can try: TUNER/1023 and TUNER/1254. In this case, I'd use the 6800 to learn any codes.

If I were going to do this, I'd check out any gaps in the various OBC sequences and go 10 in either direction of the high/low of each grouping.

[alex750]

After searching through the codes on my 6800, I found these:

Code: Select all

Function   OBC   Device
TUNE UP    032     12
TUNE DOWN  034     12

They were on AMP/0054. The other three yielded nothing new. I have put them into my upgrade-in-progress.

Now for the 8910...

[alex750]

Found another code, this one for the power toggle. It was on RCVR/1254 on my 8910...

Code: Select all

Function      Hex     EFC 5
POWER TOGGLE  $C0 3B  17662

...and there's the rub. As stated above, neither of my OFA remotes can use 5 digit EFCs; it was on the POWER key of RCVR/1254, and attempting to learn this signal with the 6800 yielded $CF 3B (OBC/DEV 059/12), the power-off discrete!

Doing a keymove on the 8910, and downloading the result in IR, yielded the correct hex--which also displayed as 059/12. In other words, this protocol (and KM, and RM) thinks $C0 3B and $CF 3B are the same, whereas the 5 digit EFCs are different, and the actual device reacts differently. For all I know, manually entering a 3 digit EFC may produce hex starting with $00. The only way to get this code into the KM upgrade was to either (a) enter the hex directly in the OBC column, or (b) switch to 5 digit EFCs. Once this was done, and placed into IR and uploaded to the 6800, it worked.

Except now I have at least 256, and possibly 4096 (256 OBCs each for hex starting with $00 through $F0) codes to try for the remaining functions (SAVE, NIGHT and STEREO/MONO), and no way of entering them, save putting them in a few at a time into KM and then trying them out...or purchasing an OEM remote.

[vickyg2003]

Except now I have at least 256, and possibly 4096 (256 OBCs each for hex starting with $00 through $F0) codes to try for the remaining functions (SAVE, NIGHT and STEREO/MONO), and no way of entering them, save putting them in a few at a time into KM and then trying them out...or purchasing an OEM remote.

There is a strategy to this. You look at the upgrade in KM or RM and look at the various OBC's For the most part they are grouped together with small gaps here or there. Exploring the gaps in the obc sequence, and expanding the sequence by 10 on either end will cut the search time considerably.

You'll have a very useful upgrade when you are through.

Good Luck

[alex750]

I finally broke down and got an OEM remote, figuring I'd need it anyway...

At any rate, here are the remaining codes:

Code: Select all

Function     OBC   Device
STEREO/MONO  065     12
SAVE         021     12
NIGHT MODE   177     12

The finished upgrade, in RM form, is here. I'd been having some problems with Excel 97 lately; an incompatibility with my antivirus program is my guess...

At no point did any of the built-in device codes for either the 6800 (AMP/0054, AMP/0360, AMP/0530, AMP/0531) or the 8910 (TUNER/1023, TUNER/1254) yield any sort of working EFC, other than the ones already stated above; most likely, these built-in device codes already used some sort of combo protocol. I even tried two other remotes, with different codes for RCA VCRs, DVD players, and even one tape deck.

Even assuming I'd tried $CF for the first byte in RM, that would still have been a lot of guesswork.

Still, I'm grateful for all the suggestions. Again, as stated above, some of them did pay off.

[vickyg2003]

Hey Alex, your upgrade doesn't show your three new finds. Could you edit your file to include your three new codes.

Even assuming I'd tried $CF for the first byte in RM, that would still have been a lot of guesswork.

There is a strategy to this. You look at the upgrade in KM or RM and look at the various OBC's For the most part they are grouped together with small gaps here or there. Exploring the gaps in the obc sequence, and expanding the sequence by 10 on either end will cut the search time considerably.

Let me show you what I was suggesting with actual numbers. It actually works pretty well. As you can see the inputs vary the DEV codes, so if I was looking for more inputs I'd look at different devices but for others, i'd look at the gaps in the OBC sequences.

Code: Select all

Dev          OBC         Function
12	32	tune up
12	34	tune down
		
12	42	power on
12	44	preset down
12	45	preset up
12	46	vol down
12	47	vol up
12	48	num 0
12	49	num 1
12	50	num 2
12	51	num 3
12	52	num 4
12	53	num 5
12	54	num 6
12	55	num 7
12	56	num 8
12	57	num 9
		
inputs vary by device
15	58	tv-input
08	58	cd-input
05	58	dvd-input
09	58	tape-input
14	58	vcr-input
12	58	tuner-input
07	58	sat-input
		
12	59	power off
12	59	power toggle
12	63	mute
		
12	71	digital
		
09	86	left arrow
09	87	right arrow
09	88	down arrow
09	89	up arrow

12	91	surround
		
12	178	eq
12	180	levels
12	181	subwoofer
12	225	setup
		
09	244	ok/exit

What I wanted you to do was check any gaps in the OBC sequences and go up or down 10 from each group. This woud not have given you the SAVE function since it was 11 from the group

12 059 power toggle
12 063 mute
12 065 STEREO/MONO

12 177 NIGHT MODE
12 178 eq
12 180 levels

[alex750]

I uploaded the wrong file! I had intended to use the one for the 6800, and instead got an old one for the 8910...

At any rate, here's the file with all the codes, for the 8910/9910.

Regarding your search methodology: Using it, I would have eventually stumbled upon STEREO/MONO and NIGHT fairly quickly...again, assuming I had stuck with $CF for the first byte. Typically, from all the unused OBCs, I would have tried every 16 first (e.g., $CF 0F, 1F, 2F, 3F...FF) then every 8 (second byte 07, 17, 27, 37...F7) then every 4 (03, 0B, 13, 1B, 23...FB) and so on.

The "gotcha" was, as stated above, the power toggle: it started with $C0. Distracted by this, I had been trying known OBC/device combinations from other RCA upgrades (e.g., 029/12, 040/9, etc.) with such "nonstandard" upper bytes ($C0, C7, 97, etc.), for example: $C0 1D, $C7 1D, $97 28 and so forth. Of course I didn't get anywhere!

Here's another surprise from the OEM remote: it alternates between 041/12 and 059/12 for a power toggle!

I checked this by learning the key twice with my 8910...sure enough, the first learn was 059/12 (discrete off) and the second was 041/12 (discrete on). In other words, UEI had already figured out the 'freakish' $C0 3B command in its TUNER/1254 setup code, which is where I got it. BTW, UEI's hacked toggle isn't perfect; sometimes the RT2390 will switch the input to TV on power-on; other times, to TUNER.

Guess this goes to show even seemingly 'orthodox' devices can have their oddities...

[alex750]

Update:
Remaining OEM codes (CLEAR, GUIDE, RECORD, STOP, PAUSE), not used by the receiver itself, have been added. Also, the key layout has been changed to better reflect the OEM layout.

For your edification:

Code: Select all

Function   Device   OBC
CLEAR        12     006
GUIDE        12     026
RECORD       12     023
STOP         12     031
PAUSE        12     025