need long output for quick keypress - create a new protocol?

macboy · Post by **macboy** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:14 am

I have a Bell ExpressVU (canada) satellite which works with device 0775, like the Dish or Echostar units. The problem is that the satellite receiver is a little slow to respond, so a key has to held down for a certain minimum amount of time (I'd say about 0.5 seconds) for it to work. If you just tap the key, it doesn't work. This is true of either the original remote or the RS 15-1994. In any case, I'd like to create a new protocol which will give a longer minimum output, so that a very brief key press will still result in a 0.5 second signal output. Or, if someone has already created one, I'd like to use it. The protocol would be based upon the cable/sat 0775 device of course. This uses the "Dishnetwork (old)" protocol, IIRC.

Can anyone offer any guidance? Specifically with the minimum time part of it?

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:28 pm

If this is for the 15-1994, try the following protocol. I have set the minimum number of repeats to 5:

Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 02 (S3C8)
2B 5C 11 8B 12 B5 05 08 08 00 C5 03 32 00 C5 05
73 00 00 00 C5 0B F2 E6 0D 05 8D 01 33
End

If that isn't enough, try increasing the 4th byte from the end (remember it's hex, so the next value after 09 is 0A (not 10).

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:37 pm

Is there the same upgrade available for 15-2116? I was struggling with this problem, and finally used Device Combiner for those keys I use in macros. For regular keys I still have to keep buttons pressed longer than usual.

I was blaming extender2 for shortened key transmissions and was looking into a way to prolonge them. But then I realized it would be stupid to slow down an extender because only one device out of seven fails to respond.

BTW in my case OEM remote required second attempt in about 1 out of 50 keypresses. Built-in 0775 device about the same. Learned keys, on the other hand, required long keypress all the time.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Try this...

Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 02 (S3C8+)
2B 5C 51 8B 14 B6 59 05 06 00 C5 03 32 00 C5 05
73 0B F2 00 C5 0B F2 05 05 08 03 37 00 0C E6 22
02 E6 0E 43 E6 0F 8B F6 01 55 18 08 56 C1 03 87
21 04 29 04 8D 01 46
End

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:03 pm

Wow, that was fast! Thanks a lot, I'll try it tonight.

macboy · Post by **macboy** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:45 pm

Excellent!
Thanks for the ultra-quick response, Rob.
I'll give it a try later.

p.s. I have two of these receivers, so the second one is set up for remote address 1 (instead of 0). There is no built-in setup code in the remote for this, so I created my own device upgrade for it, by changing the device ID (I think) in KeymapMaster to 2. Now hopefully the keypress duration thing will be licked, and both receivers will be working flawlessly.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:37 pm

This protocol should drop in and work with your current upgrades, unless it doesn't work of course!

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:12 pm

Well, I'm sorry to report it didn't work for me as expected. i.e. there is no error in code, because it works. But it works exactly as built-in 0775 device. I've tried other values for that byte as well.

I decided to investigate the behaviour of the remote a little closer. It looks like all keys work EXACTLY every other time, if pressed shortly. They all also work immediately when I press and hold them. The consistency of the first case is really interesting. I tried hard to make both keypresses as short as possible, and the second one never failed to produce a response from the box.

Even more interesting, that Power key always works in macro after I used Device Combiner to introduce a delay. Right now the hex cmd there is $34 08, it's 3 for the delay, 4 for sub-device number. Does delay 3 in DC produce more than $40 repeats in this new device upgrade? Don't think so. But somehow it works.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:08 pm

In that case, here's a "quick & dirty" way to do it, so if this works any better

Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 02 (S3C8+)
2B 5C 51 8B 14 B6 59 05 06 00 C5 03 32 00 C5 05
73 0B F2 00 C5 0B F2 05 05 08 03 37 00 0C E6 22
02 E6 0E 43 E6 0F 8B F6 01 55 18 08 56 C1 03 87
21 04 29 04 F6 01 46 F6 01 46 F6 01 46 F6 01 46
8D 01 46
End

Stosh · Post by **Stosh** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:58 am

Recently, in this thread regarding Dishplayer(old) and the every-other-keypress problem I was experiencing, Capn Trips told me:

"To get mine to work CONSISTENTLY, I have used the Device Combiner protocol to build an upgrade for the Dish unit and set a duration of 3. This seems to work pretty optimally. Also, I notice that Dish response is the first to suffer when my batteries start getting the slightest bit low. You might want to try those options (Device combiner upgrade and fresh batteries)."

This suggestion worked perfectly for me. I used the Device Combiner protocol with only the Dishplayer(old) listed; the advantage of this protocol over the Displayer(old) protocol is that you can customize the keypress duration. I also found a duration of 3 was the shortest duration that consistently worked.

Find my KM file named "Echostar-DishNetwork 4900 Dev Comb for 0775.txt" in the JP1/Files section for satellites. Good luck!

Stosh

macboy · Post by **macboy** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:07 am

Well, I'm sorry to report it didn't work for me as expected. i.e. there is no error in code, because it works. But it works exactly as built-in 0775 device. I've tried other values for that byte as well.

I have discovered that the new protocol does not work with the built-in code 0775, but it will work with device upgrades that use protocol number 0002. Since I already had such a device upgrade for the second receiver, I only had to modify it slightly to work with the first receiver, and paste it from KeymapMaster into IR.

I decided to investigate the behaviour of the remote a little closer. It looks like all keys work EXACTLY every other time, if pressed shortly. They all also work immediately when I press and hold them. The consistency of the first case is really interesting. I tried hard to make both keypresses as short as possible, and the second one never failed to produce a response from the box.

I discovered exactly the same thing. The receiver waits to receive the IR signal twice in a row before responding. So if you only tap the button, which results in the signal being sent once, it doesn't work. An additional tap meets the two-in-a-row requirement and it works. I altered the upgrade protocol that Rob gave above to change the red highlighted value to 2 (2 repeats), from 5. This works flawlessly. The receiver responds to any momentary tap, every time.

Post by **The Robman** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:46 am

macboy wrote:I have discovered that the new protocol does not work with the built-in code 0775, but it will work with device upgrades that use protocol number 0002.

That's probably my fault then, I assumed you were already using upgrades. Built in setup codes don't check for protocol upgrades, so if you change a protocol you absolutely have to use an upgrade in order to execute it.

The version of the Dishplayer (Old) protocol that's built into newer remotes has a minimum repeat level of 2 set, so this shouldn't be an issue for newer remotes.

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:28 am

macboy wrote:The receiver waits to receive the IR signal twice in a row before responding. So if you only tap the button, which results in the signal being sent once, it doesn't work. An additional tap meets the two-in-a-row requirement and it works.

Does it wait for complete sequence or just a middle part of a signal repeated twice?

EDIT: Found an answer in other thread. Pls, disregard the question.

The Robman wrote:Built in setup codes don't check for protocol upgrades, so if you change a protocol you absolutely have to use an upgrade in order to execute it.

Ha! So, in fact I did not test a thing, because I have only one button in Device Combiner and two buttons on device upgrade (required to support different sub-device number). Not sure if I used these buttons in my tests. Gonna try again tonight with both protocol upgrades and "repeat" byte set to 2. Not sure about full device upgrade, as I have very little of memory left.

Post by **The Robman** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:15 pm

wwwoholic wrote:Not sure about full device upgrade, as I have very little of memory left.

What are you using it all for? I notice you mention the device combiner, so I just want to make sure that you only have ONE copy of the device combiner protocol loaded, which is shared by all your upgrades that need it.

wwwoholic · Post by **wwwoholic** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:46 pm

The Robman wrote:What are you using it all for? I notice you mention the device combiner, so I just want to make sure that you only have ONE copy of the device combiner protocol loaded, which is shared by all your upgrades that need it.

The toads are jumping all over it

I have about 60 keymoves and 20 macros. Plus almost all my devices required upgrades, some with two-byte protocols. Satellite was the pleasant exception... until now. As I had DC for Onkyo receiver already, I've used it to add delays for satellite, but without device upgrade, with hex command in keymove referencing receiver device. I already removed DSM and Custom Name upgrades to make space for DC.