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The Apple protocol revisited

 
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Barf
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:57 am    Post subject: The Apple protocol revisited Reply with quote

The Apple protocol, both in IrpTransmogrifier and in DecodeIR, goes

Code:
{38.4k,564}<1,-1|1,-3>(16,-8,D:8,S:8,C:1,F:7,PairID:8,1,^108m,(16,-4,1,^108m)*){C=1-(#F+#PairID)%2,S=135}[D:0..255=238,F:0..127,PairID:0..255]


A RemoteCentral person wrote me that he has been encountering Apple devices using some other Ds. It turns out that if the D has an odd number of ones, the above definition will have the wrong C. So the suggestion is to change the definition to

Code:
{38.4k,564}<1,-1|1,-3>(16,-8,D:8,S:8,C:1,F:7,PairID:8,1,^108m,(16,-4,1,^108m)*){C=1-(#D+#S+#F+#PairID)%2,S=135}[D:0..255=238,F:0..127,PairID:0..255]

which appears to be consistent with the Apple devices (and it also looks more symmetric).

Anyone like to comment on this? What is the UEI executor (01E0) doing?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did a breakdown of the 3 known variants of the UEI executor, and the 1 JP1 homemade executor here:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26180
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Rob
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that including D and S in the parity bit makes sense.

There are at least 3 UEI 01E0 executors, but all of them expect that the parity bit is explicitly included in the first variable byte. The executor doesn't calculate the parity bit. RMIR does the calculation, so we would need to change protocols.ini.
ETA: I didn't notice Rob's post before I posted.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The newer 2 UEI executors include a vector call (017C) that I don't have documented, so I don't know what it does.
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Rob
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Barf
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:04 pm    Post subject: Apple protocol (re-)parametrization Reply with quote

Please have a look at this thread at RemoteCentral and give you view on the proposed re-parametrization, here or in that thead.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is a bit like when we discovered there was a different way to read Panasonic and Sony signals where, even though the other way was probably "better", we have so many upgrades, etc using the JP1 method of reading the signals, that we didn't change anything.

Having said that, we only have 1 upgrade in the file section that uses the Apple protocol, so if we did change things, the impact wouldn't be that great.
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Rob
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lynniemagoo



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 8:28 pm    Post subject: I would vote for the Command Page approach. Reply with quote

Personally, I know the Wikipedia page does not list all the command pages but for sure 0 is the Pair Command Page, and 5 is the one we know as Device 229. However, the undocumented one (14) with Home and Play/Pause which we know as Device 238 also exists.

But I do defer to you guys and am happy using a custom AppleV2 protocol in scrutinizer locally.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lyndel, what's the main change that you are suggesting, is it changing the first 2 bytes from being two 8-bit device codes, to one 11-bit "vendor code" and one 5-bit "command page" code? And are there any other sites that look at the codes this way?

What are the various codes, in both formats, that are known? And is there a complete code list of all the possibilities?

Looking at the Wiki page, I see that that code break down was introduced by Mfritze with this edit in April 2015 but he didn't cite any sources, and he's only edited 2 other articles.
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Barf
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a decoding perspective, the difference is that bits 5,6,7 (starting count by 0) are fixed to 1 in the wiki version, free in the "Apple" version.

Mfrize appears to be active on the net, just google.
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lynniemagoo



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:56 am    Post subject: Regarding Apple TV Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Hi Lyndel, what's the main change that you are suggesting, is it changing the first 2 bytes from being two 8-bit device codes, to one 11-bit "vendor code" and one 5-bit "command page" code? And are there any other sites that look at the codes this way?

What are the various codes, in both formats, that are known? And is there a complete code list of all the possibilities?

Using the previous protocol from scrutinizer, you can see all the known devices here.

With regard to other sites, I have not found any. I was happy to find this site as it narrows the Device (Command Page) down to 5 bits and has a fixed 11 bit Subdevice.

https://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewpost.cgi?1407322

Command Page 0 - Device 224

Command Page 5 - Device 229

Command Pager 14 (undocumented on Wiki) - Device 238

I'm OK with whatever you and Barf decide.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have taken the codes from that last page at RC and broken them down in the following spreadsheet. The Wiki pages confuses me because it doesn't seem to list the field types in the right order, regardless of whether I read the data left-to-right or right-to-left. So please take a look at the data in the spreadsheet and tell me what should be changed? I originally thought it was the sub-device, but that value is constant throughout, so I don't think that's it.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26988
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Rob
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