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JP1 Remotes
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Barf Expert
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 1436 Location: Munich, Germany |
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:57 am Post subject: The Apple protocol revisited |
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The Apple protocol, both in IrpTransmogrifier and in DecodeIR, goes
Code: | {38.4k,564}<1,-1|1,-3>(16,-8,D:8,S:8,C:1,F:7,PairID:8,1,^108m,(16,-4,1,^108m)*){C=1-(#F+#PairID)%2,S=135}[D:0..255=238,F:0..127,PairID:0..255]
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A RemoteCentral person wrote me that he has been encountering Apple devices using some other Ds. It turns out that if the D has an odd number of ones, the above definition will have the wrong C. So the suggestion is to change the definition to
Code: | {38.4k,564}<1,-1|1,-3>(16,-8,D:8,S:8,C:1,F:7,PairID:8,1,^108m,(16,-4,1,^108m)*){C=1-(#D+#S+#F+#PairID)%2,S=135}[D:0..255=238,F:0..127,PairID:0..255]
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which appears to be consistent with the Apple devices (and it also looks more symmetric).
Anyone like to comment on this? What is the UEI executor (01E0) doing? |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21519 Location: Chicago, IL |
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3FG Expert
Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that including D and S in the parity bit makes sense.
There are at least 3 UEI 01E0 executors, but all of them expect that the parity bit is explicitly included in the first variable byte. The executor doesn't calculate the parity bit. RMIR does the calculation, so we would need to change protocols.ini.
ETA: I didn't notice Rob's post before I posted. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21519 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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The newer 2 UEI executors include a vector call (017C) that I don't have documented, so I don't know what it does. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Barf Expert
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 1436 Location: Munich, Germany |
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:04 pm Post subject: Apple protocol (re-)parametrization |
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Please have a look at this thread at RemoteCentral and give you view on the proposed re-parametrization, here or in that thead. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21519 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I think this is a bit like when we discovered there was a different way to read Panasonic and Sony signals where, even though the other way was probably "better", we have so many upgrades, etc using the JP1 method of reading the signals, that we didn't change anything.
Having said that, we only have 1 upgrade in the file section that uses the Apple protocol, so if we did change things, the impact wouldn't be that great. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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lynniemagoo
Joined: 24 Nov 2020 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 8:28 pm Post subject: I would vote for the Command Page approach. |
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Personally, I know the Wikipedia page does not list all the command pages but for sure 0 is the Pair Command Page, and 5 is the one we know as Device 229. However, the undocumented one (14) with Home and Play/Pause which we know as Device 238 also exists.
But I do defer to you guys and am happy using a custom AppleV2 protocol in scrutinizer locally. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21519 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Hi Lyndel, what's the main change that you are suggesting, is it changing the first 2 bytes from being two 8-bit device codes, to one 11-bit "vendor code" and one 5-bit "command page" code? And are there any other sites that look at the codes this way?
What are the various codes, in both formats, that are known? And is there a complete code list of all the possibilities?
Looking at the Wiki page, I see that that code break down was introduced by Mfritze with this edit in April 2015 but he didn't cite any sources, and he's only edited 2 other articles. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Barf Expert
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 1436 Location: Munich, Germany |
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:51 am Post subject: |
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From a decoding perspective, the difference is that bits 5,6,7 (starting count by 0) are fixed to 1 in the wiki version, free in the "Apple" version.
Mfrize appears to be active on the net, just google. |
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lynniemagoo
Joined: 24 Nov 2020 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:56 am Post subject: Regarding Apple TV |
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The Robman wrote: | Hi Lyndel, what's the main change that you are suggesting, is it changing the first 2 bytes from being two 8-bit device codes, to one 11-bit "vendor code" and one 5-bit "command page" code? And are there any other sites that look at the codes this way?
What are the various codes, in both formats, that are known? And is there a complete code list of all the possibilities? |
Using the previous protocol from scrutinizer, you can see all the known devices here.
With regard to other sites, I have not found any. I was happy to find this site as it narrows the Device (Command Page) down to 5 bits and has a fixed 11 bit Subdevice.
https://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewpost.cgi?1407322
Command Page 0 - Device 224
Command Page 5 - Device 229
Command Pager 14 (undocumented on Wiki) - Device 238
I'm OK with whatever you and Barf decide. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21519 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have taken the codes from that last page at RC and broken them down in the following spreadsheet. The Wiki pages confuses me because it doesn't seem to list the field types in the right order, regardless of whether I read the data left-to-right or right-to-left. So please take a look at the data in the spreadsheet and tell me what should be changed? I originally thought it was the sub-device, but that value is constant throughout, so I don't think that's it.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26988 _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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